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would this be hard to fix?

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Destroked 450
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


My brother has a New Idea belt drive, I have a NH 256.
He borrows my 256, I never borrow his New Idea.
Nothing wrong with belt drive but he's had a number of issues with the engagement dogs. His NI has straight axle with bushings, NH has offset axle with bearings.
The old New Idea belt drive rakes do a decent job, but their no comparison to a good NH 56 or 256.
 
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Fritz Maurer
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You're right about parts availability, but on the average, what parts have been consumed on a 45G in the last 70 years other than rake teeth? That gear box will last until Judgement Day. I would like to know why Agco chose not to continue on with New Idea. They sure made some good stuff.
 
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Don-Wi
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

gotmyfarm! wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:36:16 07/15/19) [quote="CVPost-PJH, what am I looking at here? Is that an extreme jack knife turn, tractor to rake? Wow.
So I just got back. I thought I might buy that new Idea one with the 3rd wheel. It turned out that it was severly bent in the front and the front wheel was sitting diagonal! No way. I was so disappointed. Showed me two others for sale. A Hesston 3800, but I didn't like how close the frame was to one of the tires and it didn't have a third wheel and it was missing A LOT of teeth and it was more expensive than I wanted to spend. The other one was another New Idea 402, but it didn't have a front tire, darn. And it is missing the belt and needs a few teeth, BUT it was $200 so I took it. Belt can't be that much, can it? And some teeth? Got it pulled home 36 miles. Wish it had that front wheel but as long as it works, it's ok.


Where in Wisconsin are you at? I've got a number of new teeth and retainer clips in my garage from the New Idea rake we used to have. I'd have to count how many are there, but I'd sell them cheaper than you can get at the store.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
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PJH
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:04 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes that is a tight turn - the kind you can make between windrows without wrecking what you have already raked. The left rear wheel actually rolls backwards in a turn like that.

Don't get in a spot where you have to back up though - if it's more than ten feet or so you'll have to unhook and roll it by hand. They don't back well.
 
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gotmyfarm!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Your near Appleton? Hmm, I'm 3 hours NW of there, up by Phillips. I'd probably have to pay for you to mail them. Are they off the same rake, the 402? Are they orange?! That would be great! Another guy on my other post on tractor talk said he has 30 orange ones that I was hoping to buy, too. I could no doubt use all you have, too! Let me know how many you have and how much you want for them.
 
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gotmyfarm!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I meant you're not your.
 
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gotmyfarm!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No turns that sharp for me! Will try to think enough ahead as to not have to back up!
 
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Don-Wi
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

They're green.not sure what model ours was. I can try to snap a few pictures if you'd like. My email is ollieollie1600@yahoo.com.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
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MoMike
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Regarding the drive belt, check Agcopartsbooks. Find New Idea and type in your rake model number. If they have it then find the part number for the belt and cross reference it with other suppliers. I have an AC 78 rake that I bought a replacement belt for from the dealer. Former AC dealer, now sells MF and Hesston mostly. If there is a operating dealership in your area that was a NI dealer in the past they could probably give you a parts supplier if they can no longer get anything.
 
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gotmyfarm!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-MoMike wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:59:50 07/16/19) Regarding the drive belt, check Agcopartsbooks. Find New Idea and type in your rake model number. If they have it then find the part number for the belt and cross reference it with other suppliers. I have an AC 78 rake that I bought a replacement belt for from the dealer. Former AC dealer, now sells MF and Hesston mostly. If there is a operating dealership in your area that was a NI dealer in the past they could probably give you a parts supplier if they can no longer get anything.

I'll have to remember to use agcopartsbooks in the future. I found an original new NI belt on Ebay and ordered it this morning.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The correct name for the New Idea is called bittersweet.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It is the plates that the bar bearings bolt to. They like to bust around where the bearing is bolted on, then the center likes to break out around the casting they are riveted to. Then the plate that the encentric runs in the centers like to break out. The real bearings like to loose the grease fitting threads so a fitting will not hold. Those little 1/4 x 28 thread fittings do not have much thread on, I have tried to locktight the fittings in, don't know how long that lasted untill they just had to use an oil squirt can. The bearing cast is hard enough you cannot drill and tap fot the bigger fittings The clips that hold the teeth on like to get lost from a bolt breaking from being run loose. Then the bearing hangers for the real bearings break. All these parts are the same on the 4 bar series rakes, rubber tire or steel wheel. I have not been in the gear box on the rubber tire models but the small drive gear likes to loose teeth, either wear off or break off. Then on only the steel wheel models the clutch casting and the shift lever like to break, those parts are being reproduced but cuality of the cast is so poor it breaks easy. Those plates that hold the bars on should hace been made half again as thick. The bearings should have been made with the 1/8" pipe thread grease fittings thathave enough threads to actually tighten them up and will hold. The real bearings if they would have just keept the style from the 3 bar they would have been better off. Then the release lever on the handles likes to wear out on the pin that holds them on or the hole the rod hooks into wears away leaving the rod just hanging. For several years my income was from rebuilding these rakes for the amish and I have no idea how many I worked on or good ones I found for the Amish. So it is not normally the gear box making trouble but other parts that were made either too lite or of poor quality steel. The first of these rakes to have been cheapened up was the No. 4 started being built in 1948. The clamps to hold the bearing in place were too week and would let the bearing rotate to where you could either not get a grease gun on them or busting the fitting either off or out of its threads. Then the back part of the frame I have had that break and have had to cut that part off of a salvage rake it was good on and weld them together. Seems that the 3 bar that the frame was the same on did not break as bad as the 4 bar one did. Enough information?
 
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Fritz Maurer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Letting the tooth run loose so the pieces fall off and get lost it the fault of the rake? But that's just me. I have this absurd idea of checking for loose parts while greasing the machine.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:50 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Leroy wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:21:16 07/16/19) It is the plates that the bar bearings bolt to. They like to bust around where the bearing is bolted on, then the center likes to break out around the casting they are riveted to. Then the plate that the encentric runs in the centers like to break out. The real bearings like to loose the grease fitting threads so a fitting will not hold. Those little 1/4 x 28 thread fittings do not have much thread on, I have tried to locktight the fittings in, don't know how long that lasted untill they just had to use an oil squirt can. The bearing cast is hard enough you cannot drill and tap fot the bigger fittings The clips that hold the teeth on like to get lost from a bolt breaking from being run loose. Then the bearing hangers for the real bearings break. All these parts are the same on the 4 bar series rakes, rubber tire or steel wheel. I have not been in the gear box on the rubber tire models but the small drive gear likes to loose teeth, either wear off or break off. Then on only the steel wheel models the clutch casting and the shift lever like to break, those parts are being reproduced but cuality of the cast is so poor it breaks easy. Those plates that hold the bars on should hace been made half again as thick. The bearings should have been made with the 1/8" pipe thread grease fittings thathave enough threads to actually tighten them up and will hold. The real bearings if they would have just keept the style from the 3 bar they would have been better off. Then the release lever on the handles likes to wear out on the pin that holds them on or the hole the rod hooks into wears away leaving the rod just hanging. For several years my income was from rebuilding these rakes for the amish and I have no idea how many I worked on or good ones I found for the Amish. So it is not normally the gear box making trouble but other parts that were made either too lite or of poor quality steel. The first of these rakes to have been cheapened up was the No. 4 started being built in 1948. The clamps to hold the bearing in place were too week and would let the bearing rotate to where you could either not get a grease gun on them or busting the fitting either off or out of its threads. Then the back part of the frame I have had that break and have had to cut that part off of a salvage rake it was good on and weld them together. Seems that the 3 bar that the frame was the same on did not break as bad as the 4 bar one did. Enough information?


Leroy, it sounds like all of those problems were from two things, running the rakes too low and lack of maintenance.
 
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Leroy
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: would this be hard to fix? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

All I know about those belt driven New Idea rakes is that the dealers next to where they were built could not sell them to neighbors of or even employs of the compasny, they had to be shipped out of state to sell. The 4 bar rakes 99 out of a hundred have had some of those problems from parts that should have been stronger, hard to believe all of them were ran too low to ground. I rebuilt New Idea, McCormick, John Deere, Case and M Moline rakes for a living for several years for the Amish so I have been around a lot of themand a lot did not come from the Amish but where I coulf find them in Non Amish country.
 
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