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3444 loader sputters when curling bucket

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Cpenn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:51 pm    Post subject: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I recently got my 3444 hydraulic leaks fixed on the rear end plus changed every o-ring on the hydraulic control under the seat. Hydraulics seem to be running decent now, and the 3 pt now stays up. https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1397552&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Although the bucket lifts up fine, the engine sputters and works hard to simply curl the buck up or down (empty bucket). If I try and curl the bucket while driving, it nearly stalls out. Keep in mind that this is the first loader that I have ever owned, so I do not know what is normal.

Is there a way I can test to see if this is a problem with power, or if it is a problem in the hydraulics? I just bought this tractor two months ago and was reworking the rear end to stop it from leaking hydraulic fluid, so I have yet to do the normal tune up for an old tractor that was previously stored outside. I still need to change the plugs, wires, distributor cap, points, fuel filter, rebuild carb, etc. So it is possible that this could simply be a power issue in that regard. But I was curious if anyone knew how I could do a test to find if this was a power or governor issue, or if it is a problem in the hydraulics system. This loader has two hydraulic pumps. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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Phil Tibbetts
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What size are the lines going to the bucket curl? Sounds like you may have too small line which is acting as a restriction.
 
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JimB2
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Would appear to be a restriction somewhere in the bucket hydraulic circuit, is there any easy way to switch the hydraulic ports out of the loader hydraulic valve with the ports for the boom? Are they the Quick
Connect couples or are they direct hydraulic pipe connected to the loader hydraulic valve?
 
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BarnyardEngineering
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

One common thing I see with new tractor owners is that they can't tell when their tractor is not running on all cylinders. I don't know if they think all old tractors are supposed to sound like a "Johnny Popper" but they don't. 4-cylinder engines should sound like a sewing machine while running, very smooth.

If your tractor is making a "chugga-chugga" noise while running normally, it's missing on at least one cylinder, and it will be REALLY down on power.
 
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LPakiz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Another thing to consider is, "what diameter are the curl cylinders" as unusually small diameter cylinders will move really fast, but demand lots of horsepower to do that.

Also related is, if the bucket curls really fast due to small cylinders, you will not have a lot of force on the curl function.
So, how fast does the bucket curl?
If you interchange the hose sets and the problem follows the hoses, that only rules out the valve itself. Still can be restrictive hoses, fittings or abnormally small cylinders.
 
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Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Cpenn wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:51:19 09/09/19) I recently got my 3444 hydraulic leaks fixed on the rear end plus changed every o-ring on the hydraulic control under the seat. Hydraulics seem to be running decent now, and the 3 pt now stays up. https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1397552&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Although the bucket lifts up fine, the engine sputters and works hard to simply curl the buck up or down (empty bucket). If I try and curl the bucket while driving, it nearly stalls out. Keep in mind that this is the first loader that I have ever owned, so I do not know what is normal.

Is there a way I can test to see if this is a problem with power, or if it is a problem in the hydraulics? I just bought this tractor two months ago and was reworking the rear end to stop it from leaking hydraulic fluid, so I have yet to do the normal tune up for an old tractor that was previously stored outside. I still need to change the plugs, wires, distributor cap, points, fuel filter, rebuild carb, etc. So it is possible that this could simply be a power issue in that regard. But I was curious if anyone knew how I could do a test to find if this was a power or governor issue, or if it is a problem in the hydraulics system. This loader has two hydraulic pumps. Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!


It sure sounds like your engine is down on power.

Even with any of the hydraulic functions' cylinders fully extended or retracted, if you would continue to hold the lever, you should be hearing the hydraulics squeal in protest, and the engine should bark a bit but not stall.

The other thing to check (before it's too late) is that the hydraulic relief valve is functioning and set to the recommended PSI.
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

My first thought is that it's running too lean, the way you describe it sounds like a gas engine, so try opening up the high
speed adjustment if so equipped. It also could be missing, as someone else described, try pulling of the plug wires one at a
time to see if it's running on all cylinders. Also it could be a cracked distributor cap, spray the inside with WD-40 and wipe
out the excess, that will fix it temporarily. Don't go buying a bunch of parts until you do some troubleshooting! Good luck,
and report back with your findings!
 
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Cpenn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Okay everyone, you all sure gave me a lot of wonderful wisdom. I did some investigating after work. No restrictions in hose size for the bucket compared to the boom (both reduce to a metal fitting, 1/2" outer diameter). So I started thinking about power.

I'll admit, I figured that a missing cylinder could be ruled out. I have restored four antique tractors and have heard missing cylinders. But I did my due diligence anyway. Guess what? I was wrong this time. I pulled off wires one at a time (I felt the jolt from the cracks on every single one of them). Cylinder 3 made no difference when I pulled it off. So I hooked up my spark tester to the boot and found that it indeed had juice (which I already knew from being shocked). I have to admit, it does not sound bad at all for only running on 3 cylinders!

So then I changed the spark plug with an old AL 435 that I had. I don't believe that there was a change. Then I arced both of the spark plugs on the block to make sure that they were both good, and they both produced visible spark.

At this point, my thought is that I have spark, but not good, hot spark. I have found in the past that makes a big difference. I am now thinking that I should replace the wires, plugs, cap, and perhaps distributor tune up. What do you think?
 
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Cpenn
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I just had another thought: could the intake valve be faulty and not allowing fuel into the cylinder?
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would check compression before I buy a lot of parts, you might have a valve stuck open.
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Possibly, if the compression is near OK you could pull the valve cover and make sure the valves are opening and closing and
have proper clearance, you should check that anyhow.
 
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Cpenn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:18 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Great point. Will do. I imagine the specifications for valve clearance is the same on all of the International 134 engines? I don't have a service manual specifically for the engine, although that information might be in the owner's manual that I have, as valve adjustment may have been considered routine. If not, I bet I can find those numbers easily with on-line searching.

Thanks. I will let you know what I find after pulling off cover.
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think .015 would work, maybe a little less. It will run fine with a little more, have more power if set correctly.
 
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Cpenn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I found zero compression in that cylinder. Should I put compressed air into the spark plug hole at TDC and see which valve the air leaks out of? Or should I first check the valve clearance? I am hoping it is a valve and not something else.
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: 3444 loader sputters when curling bucket Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hopefully it's just a valve stuck open, pull the valve cover and check it out. If one of the valves is stuck open, put some
penetrating oil (not WD-40) around the stem and carefully tap on the valve stem with a soft hammer.
 
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