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460 vs 350

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dhermesc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How much more fuel will a 460 use compared to a 350 doing similar work? Is there any real difference (other than power) between the two tractors? Does the 460 have stronger hydraulics (I know it has a much larger reservoir of fluid)?
 
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the tractor vet
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Lets just say they are NOT Peruses , as i had a 460 gasser ONCE and that tractor was like owning a Boat or a camper . I was happy the day i bought it and ecstatic the day i sold it . Ya got lots of walking in carrying five gallon of gas to it at the far end of the field . Went to a ten acre field one morning with a full tank with a 12 foot disc hooked to the back and went to work and went over it twice and was on the far end finishing up the head land after going over the field TWICE and run out . That was a long walk in the days before a four wheel drive Pick up and a vary long walk carrying a five gallon can back. Always felt that a 460 was a nice Big Little tractor , yes it would a set of 540 4x14's and suck gas and it would handle the 12 foot disc and suck gas and it would handle the 9 foot hay bine and suck gas it would handle the baler and wagon and suck gas . The only thing that sucked more gas was the old M with the 319 New idea mounted picker . The only thing good was gas was under 25 cents a gallon.
 
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NY 986
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

460 never had a good reputation where I am but will admit I have never had anybody give feed back on a diesel. A neighbor years ago had a 460 gas and a H and bypassed the 460 as much as possible in favor of the H. If doing upwards of 100 hours per year fairly heavy work I would seriously consider a diesel and something a tad more modern.
 
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dhermesc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The heaviest work will be running the baler - something anything with 20 hp can handle for the most part. After that its raking and mowing. I love my old 350 but the PTO issues are getting worse with it and it's hydraulic pump has seen better days. Those two repairs will probably run more than the 460 I'm looking at. We had a utility 460 growing up with a 2000 loader mounted on it but it was gone years before I started running tractors. We had 560 diesel for years but it was so worn out (well over 10K hours) when it was sold its hardly a fair comparison.
 
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Roger Tomfohrde
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Our family has had both. The 460 is still around the 350 is not. 460 Has more creature comforts. 34 gallon gas tank compared to 18 at most. The hydraulics is where the 460 comes ahead with three times more hydraulic oil and a better pump(slightly more pressure). PTO is virtually the same unless the later clutch style is on it, which is a little better than the planetary one. I hear the gas consumption thing all the time an do know if you work the snot out of them yes they will take gas(you may also burn the valves, been there). 460 bailing with a 273 baler was around 2 gallons. Plowing 4 or so. Same with the 560 plowing was around 5 and just light duty 2.5 pulling a round baler I did this for a lot of years. Tillage is where the fuel went through the roof.I had a utility 460 with a loader and it was the most helpless thing on two wheels you ever saw so I stay away from them,bear in mind I could not add rear weight as the same tractor was grinding feed and I did a lot of that(18 tons a week in the late 80s). The power steering on a row crop is better on the 460.We did not go to diesel until 74 and mostly ran gas during the winter.Fuel use might be close to the same on baling work.
 
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JimB2
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TV, hope you are doing well.
Did you ever use a 460 Diesel? What was your opinion of the diesel model?
Back in 1960-61 my Dad was trying out every 40 to 50 HP Diesel tractor to replace our 300U gas but he was very disappointed with the 460U Diesel performance on the single row IH #15 forage harvester chopping corn.
 
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Roger Tomfohrde
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Not TV but there were a few in my area. They usually were hard to start and because of the much shorter stroke did not have the torque and lugging the 560 had so most people did not buy them.
 
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Mac AR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Why not take the best of both worlds and find a 450? Lots more power (like the 460) but set up the the same as a the 350 you're already used to. I hated our 460 with a passion. Too big from some jobs and too small for others. That six didn't lug like the old four cylinders did, to me any way. For PTO work it did pretty good, but for pulling a plow or disk, give me the old SM any day! It was for that reason we didn't keep the 460 long. We went backwards to a M&W'd Super MTA, and I personally liked it much, much better. The 300 I have now uses around 2 to 2.5 gal/hr baling hay, and pulling a plow uses about 3 to 3.5, 4 if I'm in heavy sod. The SMTA used about the same. The 460 was pretty thirsty as best I can remember, and that also contributed to its sale. It may just be me, or maybe ours was just sick, but it seemed like the SMTA would do just as much in a day as the 460 could and use less fuel while doing it. Again, I may be wrong.

Were it me (and it ain't), I'd sincerely look at the cost of repairs to the 350. I'm sure you have or you wouldn't be asking. But, the PTO may just need new bands to be back normal. The bands are available, but pricey. $238 each on this site. As far as the hyd. pump, a brand new one is $612.64, also on this site. A rebuild kit is $78. So worst case, you're looking at ~ $1100 to fix the problem. Of course, that's not counting labor but I figure you'll do that yourself. Around here, $1100 won't buy you much of a 460. A real nice H or M, yea. But anything with IPTO and live hyd that runs and looks halfway decent, doesn't leak too much, and fair rubber will go north of 2 grand in a hurry. I'd sure try to fix what I had, but that maybe my old Irish "make do or do without" mindset coming out.

Mac
 
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dhermesc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The only "plowing and disking" I do is for my wife's garden. Lugging power isn't an issue. The 400/450s are few and far between and the one thing I do know about them - they burn more fuel than an M.

Bands aren't the issue. The PTO knocks deep down inside the transmission - it only used to do it when turning short with the baler. I quit using it on the baler and only used it on an IH 1200 sickle mower. After a few years of light use it knocks whenever the PTO is running - even if nothing is attached. When I bought the tractor 20 years ago it had a huge amount of water in the transmission - I think the prior owner ran it that way for years with only water lubricating most of the gears and bearings.
 
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Mac AR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yea, that's what I get for assuming. Sounds like you've got at least one bad bearing. That would be a heckuva job to fix, would require splitting and you really won't know what you got until you get in there. You may be better off with a 460 then all other things being equal. And, if the 460 you're looking at is decent, you definitely would be.

Mac
 
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Roger Tomfohrde
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

An Idea crawl under the tractor and see if it has a seasonal disconnect for the pto. If it does test it to see if it is not part way. Some of them had that option.
 
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dhermesc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No seasonal disconnect on this 350.
 
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dhermesc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The one I found seems to have had an easier life than my 350. The previous owner put new tires on the back about 3 years ago and parked it in a shed and forgot about it. Its all original and has probably been shed kept most of its life. My 350 looked like it had spent 90% of its life sitting outside when I bought it. If the PTO wasn't giving us an issue I probably wouldn't give it a second thought. With 20 years of ownership I've got a good handle on what kind of machine I have and know its strengths and limitations. I'd rather have another 300/350 but the ones that aren't beat to death are way over priced.
 
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wolfman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We had a 460 gas for years. It was quite easy on gas. Definitely not a powerhouse which is why it was easy on gas. For about 20 years that poor old 460 plowed the ground, disced the ground, picked the corn, chopped the silage, baled the hay, hauled the wagons, etc. It was the best tractor on the 9-ft haybine ever, its drawbar & PTO shaft were such that it made a square corner with ease. All tractors now have the SAE (old Ford style) drawbar & PTO and they don't make square corners with ease. If you like a 350, you'll love a 460.
 
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CenTex Farmall
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: 460 vs 350 Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a 460LP. The power steering works very well and you have three spool hydraulics built and you also have a built in filter for the hydraulic oil.

The six is smoother but it does feel a little different under foot. As others have mentioned, the low speed torque is different compared to the four. Once you wind it up a little bit the power comes in and it will be fine.

I run a Hesston 550 with mine. It makes much tighter bales than my old IH 2400 and handles it fine but it is working pretty good with a full bale in the chamber.

I believe the basic design of the head is more efficient than the 350. The 460 is almost 50 more cubic inches and is rated about 10 more HP at almost the same RPM as a 350 so at maximum power it will burn a little more fuel. If the throttle is opened just to where you're doing the same work you were doing on the 350 then I would bet the fuel burn would be about the same.
 
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