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Injection pump timing


 
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Skip Burney
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I am putting my 35 back togther and for the life of me I cannot find the word "Spill 18" on my flywheel anywhere. I can set the engine up on TDC and get the "E" on the injection pump right but that just means everything is at TDC. How can I get the correct advance on the injection pump. I think its 16 degrees BTDC. When I set it up last time I just set it up at TDC and cranked it up and it ran fine is there anything wrong with doing that again. It ran fine and pulled great but I was just going to try to get it dead on this time. Is there a mark on the flywheel I can set it up by?
 
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Dieseltech
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Long as all the gears are in right, just line up the pump flange and timing cover mark and it will be good. The snap ring inside may or MAY NOT be set correctly anyway..
 
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Skip Burney
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Dieseltech wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:47:15 09/23/19) Long as all the gears are in right, just line up the pump flange and timing cover mark and it will be good. The snap ring inside may or MAY NOT be set correctly anyway..


You mean the 2 scribe lines on the pump flange. The gears are all set correctly but I have to have the pump rotated correctly or the pump wont be timed to the engine correctly
 
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Dieseltech
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I repeat, use the pump FLANGE ear scribe line, and align it to the TIMING GEAR CASE scribe line. If engine does not run well then rotate pump housing either way as needed. Don't worry about the snap ring/letter inside, most late spec sheets no longer use it anyway.
 
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Skip Burney
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I REPEAT what times the pump rotor to the engine the gears can be in alignment with all the timing marks matched up and the dowel pin in the gear and the pump be 180 degrees out of time to the engine. The scribe lines in the pump flange and gear housing are for fine tuning not to set the correct injection phase
 
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Dieseltech
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CAV DPA pumps CAN'T be 180 out IF the gears are in correctly. The drive plate inside the pump that bolts to the hydraulic head has a master one way spline to the drive shaft inside end, and the two drive bolts that thread into the rotor are offset. Pump can't be assembled 180 out like Stanadyne/Roosa pumps can. All late DPA spec sheets dropped the internal letter/snap ring location, and Ford DPA pumps never did use it. Only mistake that could happen is to bolt the gear to hub 1/3 turn off ether way by missing the gear pin into the hub groove. Saw that happen before, hub face just pushes the gear pin forward. I took the three bolts out, turned the hub where needed and tapped the pin back into the groove. Replaced the bolts and got the fellow going again without having to remove the pump. Engine was a 4.236 Perkins, not sure how he missed the pin into hub groove, but he did.
 
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Skip Burney
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The dowel pin was loose in the gear and instead of being in the slot it was a bolt hole off. The dowel pin simply pushed out of the face of the gear through the hole in the lock plate. It looked perfectly normal and all of the gears were lined up correctly but when I removed the gear to check the injection pump timing the dowel pin fell out of the gear onto the shop floor. So I set the injection pump up like the book said, meshed the pump gear onto the idler in the correct position leaving the pin out and then took a phillips screwdriver to go through the dowel pin hole and slightly rotate the pump just a fraction to line everything up and pushed the pin into the gear and into the slot. Then instead of using the hole in the lockplate over the dowel pin I moved the lockplate one bolt hole so that the pin could not come out of the front of the gear. Now I am waiting on gaskets to close everything up and bleed everything.
 
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jim ball
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote

dieseltech gave good advice. may i point you to 2 vids by bundy bear on mf 135 they shoW FITTING THE TIMING GEARS & TIMING AND REMOVING THE
INJECTION PUMP. they may help.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18FW7E_uKQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFWGjrB_Gko&t=473s
 
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Jackangel
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote


bundy bear is simply a great guy!
 
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Skip Burney
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote


its already back togther and mowing my runway
 
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Skip Burney
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Injection pump timing Reply to specific post Reply with quote


That he is I always enjoy his videos, someone had rebuilt my engine before and my gears had all sorts of punch marks on them so before I took the engine down I marked my gears with paint marks. The dowel pin in my injection gear was loose and not pressed into the gear so when you thought the pin was in the slot on the pump it was actually one bolt hole off and the dowel pin was just protruding from the face of the gear instead of being in the correct timing slot

 
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