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1974 Ford 4000 SOS

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strum456
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:45 pm    Post subject: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I picked up a non-running 1974 ford 4000 Select O Speed this summer. The diesel engine had spun a bearing, but the owner told me the transmission worked great. I got the tractor for a low enough price that my back up plan was to swap the diesel engine from this 4000 into my gas 3000 if it turned out that the transmission wasn't as good as the owner said it was.

Well, I tried out the transmission for the first time tonight. Gears 3,4,7,8,10 and R2 do not work. I have a factory Ford shop manual. According to the manual, it sounded like a problem with band #1. Then I noticed oil pouring out of the bellhousing. I split the tractor again, to find a bad leak at the trans input shaft. My manual tells me that this leak could cause the particular gears that I was having a problem with not to work.

I also know that the input shaft and torque limiting clutch are shot. The splines are half worn off or should I say "half good". I don't want to be too pessimistic. I thought I would try out the rest of the trans before I do anything about those splines. Good thing I did, because I went to replace the input shaft seal and found that the splines on the pump are bad !!#$* Now I'm puzzled. The pump splines aren't worn. Just a spline here and there is sheared off. I have no explanation as to how that would even be possible.

So now I have to decide what to do. We did a major on the engine. New crank, bored, whole 9 yards.

Option #1: fix the SOS trans. knowing it needs an input shaft, limiting clutch, pump, and who knows what else.

Option #2: Part out the tractor, but keep the engine for my 3000. I could also sell the gas engine out of the 3000. There's nothing wrong with it. I'd just rather have a diesel.

Option #3: Find an 8 speed for the 4000 and swap out the SOS. Aside from the SOS, the tractor is in pretty nice shape. I have no idea where to look for a manual trans. though. I suppose I could look for a good SOS trans too. I wouldn't know where to find either one locally.

I would like to fix this tractor, rather than part it out, but I'm afraid it may be worth more in parts. Not to mention, value of my 3000 would nearly double by switching it over to a diesel.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The first thing is to tell where you are incase someone just down around the corner has the transmission that you want.
 
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JK-NY
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You may be able to find a tractor with a bad engine to use
your new engine in, or provide a donor transmission, flywheel
clutch etc. As mentioned if we know where you are some one
here might be able to help you. I would do some looking into
parts available and cost for the SOS , I am not sure how much
dealer support CNH is providing for them these days ,
although I am sure some of the folks on here can give you
some parts sources and advice. The SOS all comes apart out
the back so you are in for a double split and might find more
issues once you get it apart. If you are capable of doing the
work you?re self fixing the SOS might be worth doing but if you
want to send it to a shop it may be hard to find someone
familiar with them. There were 2 former Ford trained dealer
mechanics in this area that were real good on the SOS but
one has passed away. The other one was able to provide me
with some good used parts for mine when it needed some
love almost 25 years ago.
 
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strum456
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:17:55 10/23/19)
The first thing is to tell where you are incase someone just down around the corner has the transmission that you want.


I'm in SW PA, Westmoreland County.
 
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strum456
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote


A double split would be nothing new, but SOS transmissions are. Messicks has listings on a lot of these parts, but it would be cost prohibitive. We would like to have an AP 4000, but it's not something I need to fix. If the tractor was in the family for years, it would be different.
 
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showcrop
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote



Leroy at Page Equipment in Luray VA is only four hours away. He works on SOSs every day and has a lot of parts and rebuilt assemblies.
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote



Arthur's Tractors @ Indiana, PA is good with SOS transmissions and is likely not terribly far from you.
 
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strum456
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I've made some progress. I talked to Leroy at Paige Equipment - super nice guy with so much knowledge. He suggested finding another complete transmission. I called the nearest tractor salvage yard I could find (1.5 hours away), and they have an 8 speed off of a 3910, with the rear end included.

Now I'm looking for a flywheel. The 3910 is a gas, and my tractor is a diesel. I've made some calls and haven't had any luck so far.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm not certain but rhink a 3910 has the
same 8 on 8" lug pattern but has 5/8"
bolts and not 3/4" like a 4000 has.
Likely has taller gears in the rear end
too.
I would at least ask about those things.
 
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lastcowboy32
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Just so you have a number, I sold my Ford 4000 diesel, with blown engine and a working eight speed for $1350 last summer.

I started at a higher price and may have been able to get it, if I held out for a couple or a few months, but that what's I could get for it in Central New York after having it on the market for a couple of weeks, a few hours away from you.

Good luck.
 
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strum456
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

lastcowboy32 wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:55:02 10/24/19)
Just so you have a number, I sold my Ford 4000 diesel, with blown engine and a working eight speed for $1350 last summer.

I started at a higher price and may have been able to get it, if I held out for a couple or a few months, but that what's I could get for it in Central New York after having it on the market for a couple of weeks, a few hours away from you.

Good luck.


Thanks for the info. They are asking $1000 for just the rear end and transmission. Maybe that's a little high then?
 
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lastcowboy32
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote


It's not a terrible price.

Maybe a better number is the price that I bought the 4000 for. I bought it at auction, which is usually a good indicator of what the market bears, back in 2018 for $4000 with a loader on it, and it was seemingly in good condition.

It had a hidden issue with the engine that took a year to blow.

But, anyway, when I sold it, I was trying to get about 2500 for all of it, with the loader. In the end, I got 1350 for the tractor, and I'm probably going to get some animals for the loader, since the farmer that bought the loader doesn't have cash...which is OK... we've all been there.

Two elephants for a quarter is a good price if you have the quarter and need the elephants.

Which is a way of saying, if you have the thousand bucks and a good engine...and the tranny and rear end are good? Doesn't sound all that bad.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I think your price is in the zone.
I've bought/sold a couple/few 4000s in
the last two? years.
Bought this 4600 as is for $1100.




Bought this 4000 for $1200.





And I sold the transmission/rear end
with clutch and flywheel from a 4400 it
did have 3 point and ipto but was a 6x4
for $1K.
 
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strum456
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here's where I'm at with the project.

4000 AP with spun bearing in the engine and bad SOS trans (didn't know at the time)

1700

Total engine rebuild including machining and a new crank
1500

Rear axle and trans
1000

Flywheel
?

Clutch
300

Am I going to be into this thing too deep? I could still put the engine in my 3000 and sell parts.
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Ford 4000 SOS Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What will you do with the tractor
if/when you get it running?
If your plan was to sell it for a profit
you're way under water now so get out
while you can.
If you planned to use it for a few years
$5K would not be too much for a tractor
that size.
For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of
guys dump most of that much into a Ford
N Series.
Another big question is your tires.
How good are they? How's the tin?
Though the heyday of these old Fords is
behind us and parts aren't selling worth
a darn I've still come out okay on the
two that I pictured.
Probably sold enough parts off the two
to get the 8 sp transmission and rear
end from the 4000 for little or nothing
- which is what I wanted in the first
place - to replace the SOS in my own
4000. Mine worked good but I hated the
thing.
 
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