Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

8n starter, after reading.


 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mcduffieclan
New User


Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:53 pm    Post subject: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Guys,
I have read the entire forum, and I promise as an 8n owner, I will before I ever ask.

I have a side mount distributor, what I believe is still a 6v system.

I am encountering many of the same issues on mine, as what seems to be most of everybody else had them, or is having them.

To the issue,
I burnt up a starter motor, - my negligence. I let the magic smoke out.
Ordered one. Got it in today, I installed - it was really simple or I really dorked it up.

I assembled the cables, and first push of the push button, it turned over, cranked it. I drove it around 30 minutes or so.

I shut it off. Cranked it back up and nothing. The solenoid clicks.
I read where the starter motor could get stuck on the fly wheel.
I unhooked everything. - even spun the flywheel with a pry-bar,
hooked it back up, tested it outside the tractor. NADA.
Same click, no spinny. javascript:emoticon('Crying or Very sad')
I got the old starter and I can spin the bendix and shaft by hand.
I cannot rotate the new one, period. and the where the arrow is pointing to in the pic, - the middle part that is on the gears, is no where near those small worm like gears.


 
Back to top
View user's profile
jimtrs
Regular


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 168
Location: Sandown, NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcduffieclan wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:53:47 12/01/19) Guys,
I have read the entire forum, and I promise as an 8n owner, I will before I ever ask.


Ummm.... seriously.
2,191 pages in this forum alone. Average of 25 threads on each page. Each thread having up to 15 posts per page, many with multiple pages themselves.
Quote:

To the issue,
I burnt up a starter motor, - my negligence. I let the magic smoke out.

How did you "burn up" the starter? Why do you think it is "burnt up"

Quote:
I assembled the cables, and first push of the push button, it turned over, cranked it. I drove it around 30 minutes or so.
I shut it off. Cranked it back up and nothing. The solenoid clicks.
I read where the starter motor could get stuck on the fly wheel.
I unhooked everything. - even spun the flywheel with a pry-bar,
hooked it back up, tested it outside the tractor. NADA.
Same click, no spinny.

Sounds like low battery or connections need cleaning.

Quote:
I got the old starter and I can spin the bendix and shaft by hand.
I cannot rotate the new one, period. and the where the arrow is pointing to in the pic, - the middle part that is on the gears, is no where near those small worm like gears.


There are different types of starter drives on these Ford starters - original bendix type, clutch type etc.

Try cleaning all Starter system electrical connections. Fully charge the battery. Could even try a 12 volt battery temporally. Don't let it run too long on 12 volts until you determine if the ignition system is 6 or 12 volts. Don't turn on headlights with 12 volts, again until you determine the bulb voltage.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mcduffieclan
New User


Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thank you for the list of items to try.

How did you "burn up" the starter? Turning the motor over, and sparks came from the backside of the starter, talked to YT OTP phone, and it was suggested that is was the starter.
Thought it was the battery at first, since it was turning over very slowly. Used a 12 V battery, sparks emitted less than 4 seconds and no turn over.

Sounds like low battery or connections need cleaning. NEW battery with date of 10/19

Connections are being replaced. Complete with wires, ( there are lots of splices, - i bought the tractor with the wiring that way, it is on my list items to replace during the winter.

Don't let it run too long on 12 volts until you determine if the ignition system is 6 or 12 volts. I am being very cautious about this, it has what looks like the original generator, or OEM - it is in the same shape as the oil filter canister and air canister.
No headlight are hooked up.

As to the reading, I may have missed a page or two that didn't fit my search criteria.

Upon today session I shall take pics.

Should I be able to turn the aperture shaft by hand?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Kurt-NEPA
Long Time User


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 1210
Location: Tunkhannock, PA

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I thinking the same thing as jimtrs. A clicking solenoid is a symptom of low voltage. Either a discharged battery or bad wires and/or connections.

I would replace the battery cables and the solenoid if it were me. They probably need that anyway. As an alternative you could use a jumper cable to connect from the battery hot terminal to the nut on the starter stud. I'm not sure if your tractor is negative ground or positive ground. Stock was 6 volt positive ground. Most 12 volt conversions are negative ground. Check which battery cable goes to the chassis, that is the ground. Jump the other battery post to the nut on the start stud. If the starter spins normally then you have wiring issues. If it spins slowly or not at all, then get the battery checked and repeat the test with a know good battery. If it still spins slowly I would question the starter.

Hope that helps.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 25315
Location: Chester NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote


McDuff, this is one of the most common problems despite your not finding it in the archives. The reason that you are not finding it is that you, like most others, are misdiagnosing. You are passing over the simple problem and insisting that it is a far more serious problem. The way to correctly diagnose it is to test for voltage drop. If you don't know how, post back.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mcduffieclan
New User


Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you do not mind posting, the testing of the voltage drop. I will follow it.

It is taking me a day or 3 longer than I had planned. It looks like now nothing will happen till Saturday.
That job thing keeps getting in my way.

I am what most folks refer to as an CYBER SECURITY GUY.
I spend my day in front of clients are a computer looking for, teaching, defense against the dark arts, cybers, and the like.

Normally this time a year, because of my client base, it is very quiet, but not this particular year.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Den N Ms
Tractor Guru


Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 6026


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mcduff,You say I shut it off. Cranked it back up and nothing. The solenoid clicks.
I read where the starter motor could get stuck on the fly wheel.
I unhooked everything. - even spun the flywheel with a pry-bar,
hooked it back up, tested it outside the tractor. NADA.
Same click, no spinny. javascript:emoticon('Crying or Very sad')
I got the old starter and I can spin the bendix and shaft by hand.
I cannot rotate the new one, period.

I have seen a new style starter drive hang up after starting the engine and keep spinning the starter engaged in the flywheel.And the engine running at 1/4 throttle.
So yes it could have hung up and spun your starter very fast till it locked up spinning for up to 30 minutes.
If you can't turn the armature shaft by hand something is bad wrong,armature exploded or bushings sized up.








If
 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 25315
Location: Chester NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcduffieclan wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:35:04 12/04/19) If you do not mind posting, the testing of the voltage drop. I will follow it.

It is taking me a day or 3 longer than I had planned. It looks like now nothing will happen till Saturday.
That job thing keeps getting in my way.

I am what most folks refer to as an CYBER SECURITY GUY.
I spend my day in front of clients are a computer looking for, teaching, defense against the dark arts, cybers, and the like.

Normally this time a year, because of my client base, it is very quiet, but not this particular year.



Testing voltage drop is easy but it requires a helper. You first check voltage at the battery, then move your -lead over to the starter lug. This is assuming positive ground polarity. While holding the two leads in place have your helper press the start button and you read the voltage. any more than 2.5 volts drop and you have a connection problem.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 25315
Location: Chester NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

showcrop wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:47:51 12/04/19)
mcduffieclan wrote:
(quoted from post at 07:35:04 12/04/19) If you do not mind posting, the testing of the voltage drop. I will follow it.

It is taking me a day or 3 longer than I had planned. It looks like now nothing will happen till Saturday.
That job thing keeps getting in my way.

I am what most folks refer to as an CYBER SECURITY GUY.
I spend my day in front of clients are a computer looking for, teaching, defense against the dark arts, cybers, and the like.

Normally this time a year, because of my client base, it is very quiet, but not this particular year.



Testing voltage drop is easy but it requires a helper. You first check voltage at the battery, then move your -lead over to the starter lug. This is assuming positive ground polarity. While holding the two leads in place have your helper press the start button and you read the voltage. any more than 2.5 volts drop and you have a connection problem.


Oops, for 6 volts make that 1.2 volts.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Ed S. (IL)
Tractor Expert


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 2945
Location: The Middle West

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As you are chasing this issue, make sure all connections are "clean, bright and tight." That happens to include the mating surface on the bell housing where the starter is bolted up. Rust or corrosion there will cause a voltage drop.

es
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mcduffieclan
New User


Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I do thank you all.
Voltage drop test

Battery is 12.25

I touch the LUG side of the solenoid 12.17

Good solid electromagnetic pop, and the solenoid jumps.

The wiring is being replaced. It all corroded, rusty color, an spliced together. 50% of the replacement is to know what wiring I am dealing with, and the other 50% so I know what wiring I am dealing with.

I have found marine grade wiring - in 7 colors, and waterproof solder in place terminals. Getting them ordered.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
showcrop
Tractor Guru


Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 25315
Location: Chester NH

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcduffieclan wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:27:45 12/07/19) I do thank you all.
Voltage drop test

Battery is 12.25

I touch the LUG side of the solenoid 12.17

Good solid electromagnetic pop, and the solenoid jumps.

The wiring is being replaced. It all corroded, rusty color, an spliced together. 50% of the replacement is to know what wiring I am dealing with, and the other 50% so I know what wiring I am dealing with.

I have found marine grade wiring - in 7 colors, and waterproof solder in place terminals. Getting them ordered.



Good Job! Thanks for posting back.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
mcduffieclan
New User


Joined: 01 Dec 2019
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Starter is in.
This one was a bear. It was like the flywheel was in the way. Once I got it in, it kinda just froze, and I was stuck.
Well it slipped out a little. And... I guess everyone can figure what happened next.

Brushes came off the armature.

Shocked
I was back on the site, reading. and found the brush topic. Got it back to together, got it back in the starter hole.
Bolted, cranked up on the 2 nd push of the button. In record time, I might add.

I was playing with EXCEL, and created a little spreadsheet. It was a cut and paste job. I went down the line, started color coding items, I put in dates on items I checked, things to do.
what the condition of items are. The hyperlinks to the YT sales page also works.

I know we cant post things like that, nor have i done this to remove business from YT, but to say thank you to you guys for assisting me. ( and make it easy to order, and keep up with tractor details. I can email it, if anybody would like a copy, if I find the time, I may make a nicer one.

 
Back to top
View user's profile
Ed S. (IL)
Tractor Expert


Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Posts: 2945
Location: The Middle West

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 8n starter, after reading. Reply to specific post Reply with quote

mcduffieclan wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:01:45 12/09/19) This one was a bear. It was like the flywheel was in the way. Once I got it in, it kinda just froze, and I was stuck.


Yep, since the starter bendix (once installed) sits behind the flywheel, you have to learn to hold your tongue just right (and maybe learn a few new words) to angle the starter properly to slip it past the flywheel. Many Ns have had the starter hole ground out larger to make this easier.

es
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Ford 9N, 2N, 8N All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters