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Electric power steering for my 8N

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Phil N
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:58 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saturn-Vue-Chevy-Equinox-Electric-power-steering-electronic-controller-box-EPAS/142461763061?hash=item212b61fdf5:g:DRQAAOSwr7tZfvQP

Click on above. I used one of these with a Saturn VUE EPS on a street rod with manual rack and pinion steering. It works great and you can dial in the amount of assist while driving the vehicle. It's the way to go in this application. A tractor with FEL might be a different story because of heavier and more constant loads on the EPS unit. On a tractor, I would use a 50 or 60 Amp automotive or marine circuit breaker. If it trips the breaker, you're overloading the EPS. Obviously you'll need a 12V conversion with a 100 Amp alternator. A properly mounted idler pulley will be needed to provide more angle of wrap of the V belt around the alternator pulley to reduce belt slippage. The EPS is a torque amplifier. It just does it with an electric motor instead hydraulically with a pump etc. The reason for an EPS in a car is it is more energy efficient because it only uses energy on demand from the driver's input through the steering wheel. It is also cheaper to manufacture.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Phil N wrote:
(quoted from post at 08:58:58 01/16/20) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Saturn-Vue-Chevy-Equinox-Electric-power-steering-electronic-controller-box-EPAS/142461763061?hash=item212b61fdf5:g:DRQAAOSwr7tZfvQP

Click on above. I used one of these with a Saturn VUE EPS on a street rod with manual rack and pinion steering. It works great and you can dial in the amount of assist while driving the vehicle. It's the way to go in this application. A tractor with FEL might be a different story because of heavier and more constant loads on the EPS unit. On a tractor, I would use a 50 or 60 Amp automotive or marine circuit breaker. If it trips the breaker, you're overloading the EPS. Obviously you'll need a 12V conversion with a 100 Amp alternator. A properly mounted idler pulley will be needed to provide more angle of wrap of the V belt around the alternator pulley to reduce belt slippage. The EPS is a torque amplifier. It just does it with an electric motor instead hydraulically with a pump etc. The reason for an EPS in a car is it is more energy efficient because it only uses energy on demand from the driver's input through the steering wheel. It is also cheaper to manufacture.


These Toyota retrofits are typically fused at 60A. If that blows you have pushed the motor AND wiring past its rated capacity.

Cost and energy savings were definitely the initial motivation for EPS in passenger cars but it's way more than that now. It is an essential component for steer by wire and autonomous vehicles.

TOH
 
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JF in MI
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

> The reason for an EPS in a car is it is more energy efficient because it only uses energy on demand from the driver's input through the steering wheel. <
No way you need a 100 amp alternator simply for the reason you stated above. Maybe if you're going to turn the wheel to lock then bungie it there but then the module would kill the power. My tractor has a 35 amp alt and when I steer the ammeter only dips for a fraction of a second and not enough to show a "recharge" rate like it does after you start the engine.
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote


A man that could adapt EPS should add a belt tensioner like a Timing belt tensioner... I did that to a Zane Live Thang : )..

https://www.carid.com/preferred-components/engine-timing-belt-tensioner-assembly-mpn-t60059.html

I see no reason to to up the alt a standard 65 amp with a good belt set up should do it for most users... The only reason to up it is cuzz you can : )....
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-JF in MI wrote:
(quoted from post at 09:50:14 01/16/20) > The reason for an EPS in a car is it is more energy efficient because it only uses energy on demand from the driver's input through the steering wheel. <
No way you need a 100 amp alternator simply for the reason you stated above. Maybe if you're going to turn the wheel to lock then bungie it there but then the module would kill the power. My tractor has a 35 amp alt and when I steer the ammeter only dips for a fraction of a second and not enough to show a "recharge" rate like it does after you start the engine.


I should have though to ask earlier but the gray cells are not what they used to be. What if any data is on the motor data plate? I would expect some basic RPM and current numbers.

TOH
 
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Ultradog MN
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks jmor.
I always choose my words carefully and
purposely used debate instead argument
quarrel, fight, etc.
Debate implies a civil dialogue where
people can offer different, even
opposing views.
Next time I'll use a more appropriate
word, as some here have little to offer
but sniping and bile and civility is not
a part of their character.
 
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JF in MI
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't get it. The belt is plenty tight with the normal alternator/generator adjusting setup from the factory. Why would I want to add a tensioner?
 
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JF in MI
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No data plate. Just a Denso label with hard to read part number and 'made in Japan'.
 
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deanostoybox
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did the experiment. Left front tire is 6.00x16, right is 5.50x16. Both are mounted with offset toward spindle. Both are three rib tires. Steering wheel turned lock to lock. Gets harder to turn closer you get to lock. Guessing that has to do with camber. Guessing easier to turn left due to difference in tire size.









Tires inflated to 10 PSI
SurfaceTurn RightBack to CenterTurn LeftBack to Center
concrete30-6025-2025-6025-20
gravel30-6025-2025-6025-20
grass30-6025-2025-6025-20
Tires inflated to 26 PSI
SurfaceTurn RightBack to CenterTurn LeftBack to Center
concrete15-2520-1515-3020-15
gravel25-4525-2025-4020-20
grass25-4525-2025-4025-20

 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-deanostoybox wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:28:27 01/16/20) Did the experiment. Left front tire is 6.00x16, right is 5.50x16. Both are mounted with offset toward spindle. Both are three rib tires. Steering wheel turned lock to lock. Gets harder to turn closer you get to lock. Guessing that has to do with camber. Guessing easier to turn left due to difference in tire size.


Had to delete your table - quoting classic view content displays the HTML. Interesting data and a thorough well done test. Clearly no loader on that tractor. Now all we need is for you to install EPS and repeat ;-)

Thanks

TOH
 
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JF in MI
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What are the numbers?
 
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deanostoybox
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sorry, that is in foot pounds to the nearest mark on an old Craftsman beam type 1/2" drive toque wrench.
 
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deanostoybox
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"Clearly no loader on that tractor. "

Nope, no loader. If I need a loader I have easy access to a John Deere 310D with MFWD and extendable dipper stick:-)

"Now all we need is for you to install EPS and repeat ;-)"

Yea well, the 8N steers easily enough. I am more interested in running it on wood gas or charcoal or used motor oil or something like that. Save some $$ on gasoline. 60+ acres to mow:-) Had a Simplicity Landlord with a tiller and a front blade on it, about a 1964 model best I could tell, now that was HARD to steer and would have been a viable candidate. Got the easy steering 8N and never used the Simplicity again. Guy came by and had to have it. Took the battery out of the welder and drove it on the trailer for him.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-deanostoybox wrote:
(quoted from post at 20:33:14 01/16/20) "Clearly no loader on that tractor. "

Nope, no loader. If I need a loader I have easy access to a John Deere 310D with MFWD and extendable dipper stick:-)

"Now all we need is for you to install EPS and repeat ;-)"

Yea well, the 8N steers easily enough. I am more interested in running it on wood gas or charcoal or used motor oil or something like that. Save some $$ on gasoline. 60+ acres to mow:-) Had a Simplicity Landlord with a tiller and a front blade on it, about a 1964 model best I could tell, now that was HARD to steer and would have been a viable candidate. Got the easy steering 8N and never used the Simplicity again. Guy came by and had to have it. Took the battery out of the welder and drove it on the trailer for him.


Funny you should mention the Simplicity. I have two 2007/2006 Kubota 24 HP lawn tractors with 60" decks and one has a rear power bagger with 3 front suitcase weights. Both have EPS and steer easily but the older one with weights is noticeably easier. I dont think it has anything to do with the weights - just that much variance in the EPS controllers.

TOH
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Electric power steering for my 8N Reply to specific post Reply with quote


When you have to jump start it a few times and can not figure out whats the deal the amp meter show's its put'N out amps it must be a bad battery... When in fact the belt is slip'N and undercharging the battery that's why I am a voltmeter lubber it tells the truth...

Just fer the ell of it put a voltmeter on it how does the EPS affect it when under a load... This is not a debate on which is best if your alt cannot keep the voltage up that will turn into a problem over time :wink:
 
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