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Starting button on 450 Gas ?

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OldFarmall450
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:55 pm    Post subject: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Been using my gas 450 around the farm, no big problems to speak of.
Tried to crank it the other day; turned on gas, turned on ignition key, hit starter. The battery was low, but when i released the starter button it kept cranking...turning over, slowly. I had the key turned off by this time, but it kept turning over for several seconds, slowly, as the battery was low.

I can fix the low battery with a simple charge...but why is the starter button not "releasing" when i stop pushing in on it??

Ok, if you recall this tractor never saw the inside of the shed, I replaced the starter button and ignition switch with replacements from TSC, so probably not the best materials. I pulled new wires on the tractor, they seem to be ok.

I'm leaning towards a bad, low quality push button switch as the culprit....if you agree can you point me towards a better quality switch?

I tore my rotator cuff and had to put building a shed on back burner, plan on jumping on that this spring.

Thanks in advance.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Starter button has welded it self up duet the low battery and that causes the button to get hot and weld it self
 
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OldFarmall450
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks for the fast reply, Old...sounds like i need a new switch...is the one from TSC good enough? It lasted 2 years..
 
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fastfarmall
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would try this site. or car quest or NAPA
 
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ih560
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm not sure how your 450 is wired, but on my 450 the starter button gets power off the key, so when you turn the key off the start button doesn't do anything. If that is the case, then your solenoid is the problem, and not the starter button
 
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old
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If it has a solenoid try tapping on it because it could also be welded up but some times tapping on the solenoid will free them back up
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Low battery can actually cause the Starter relay ((solenoid but it is a relay) to stick. the welded together contacte (not in the little push button)
need real bat power to be assured to work. Jim
 
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ih560
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a background in electrical, so call it what you want but...
Just for reference:
Solenoid

Solenoids are a type of relay engineered to remotely switch a heavier current. Similar to the smaller electromechanical cube relays, a coil is used to generate a magnetic field when electricity is passed through it, which effectively opens or closes the circuit.

The terms solenoid and relay can often be used interchangeably; however, in the Automotive market, the term solenoid generally refers to a "metal can" type, whereas a relay typically refers to the standard "cube" style relay.

Citation http://info.waytekwire.com/blog/relays-vs-solenoids-vs-contactors-a-comparison
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Solenoid in my book operate a secondary item with a linkage. Jim
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well we are both correct. A solenoid is a type of electromagnet, the purpose of which is to generate a controlled magnetic field through a coil wound into a tightly packed helix. The term was invented in 1823 by Andr?-Marie Amp?re to designate a helical coil. Wikipedia Jim
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

turning a starter with a low battery is worst thing to do. once rpm is slow just don't crank any more , as the starter gets hot. u had heat build up in solenoid terminals inside and they welded together. it is a disc that contacts the top battery post connection and the bottom starter connection. I have pulled them apart many times and shined up the connections and turn the bolt and good again. but yours maybe to far gone.
 
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matthies
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Had one of those TSC buttons brand a button mark in the center of my palm once, bought one from CaseIH after that. It was on the second or third start when it branded me, it was on a lowboy trailer used to start a single cylinder kohler.
 
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jhncp
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I remember when I was a kid my dad ruined
the starter on a nice 450 gas because the
starter was engaged the whole time he was
green chopping. Besides the point it was the
best running tractor I ever heard. The
governor was screwed up and it could go 30
mph, and it could idle so slow you could
easily count the beats like a clock.
 
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OldFarmall450
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Thanks all, me and low batteries have a horrible history. I should've put a charger on it, but it had cranked so easy before i was hoping for a repeat.

Let's hope it's the switch, not the starter.
 
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ih560
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Starting button on 450 Gas ? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would imagine if the starter is not disengaging when you turn the switch off, you will find that it is probably related to the solenoid sticking and not that switch.
YT sells them right here on this site as well as many other places.
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/DR1467_Starter-Solenoid_4521.htm

This is what we were all talking about in the previous posts. As you see, they call it a solenoid like every other place in the world that sells them.
 
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