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Transmission/Converter overheating


 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:18 pm    Post subject: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

After about an hour or so of moving loose dirt around, my 68-71? Ford 4500 won't move (forward or reverse) as fast.
I've been careful to not over-rev it and make it worse, so I just shut it down.
After a while it (cools?) and I can resume work.
I have noted that if I let it sit a while and just run, out of gear, it also will resume, but just for a few feet so I can park it.

Today I checked the Hydraulic oil in the transmission and noted it is a milky white color... after sitting a few hours it returns to normal.
I'm guessing this is air getting into the line somehow.

So, is it overheating or is the oil becoming useless due to the amount of air in it?
And, in either case... what to do?
Thanks

 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Milky white is usually water content. How long's it been since the oil was changed? Aeration is normally yellowish with maybe a tinge of green.
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm pretty good about keeping it covered and dry, but I changed the fluid out 2 weeks ago along with the trans filter.
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It's definitely yellowish for sure.. how to go about finding air getting in?
Seems harder than finding oil getting out in concept.
 
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shaun wallace
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Some of that is air but converter and oil cooler is full of same oil. It has mixed, condensation is the biggest culprit for water in trans. When has the clutch packs been into?
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

NOt sure about the clutch packs... I bought it used and dont now too much about it.
What puzzles me is that after a while the fluid returns to the normal "clear" color.
I've seen water in machines before and that doesnt clear up like this did.
 
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Larry NCKS
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Did you put the correct fluid in when you changed it? Sounds like you need a fluid more resistant to foaming than what you may have in it.
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Larry,
I've been using the Universal Hydraulic Fluid from TSC.
Can you suggest anything different for me to use?
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-DustySawyer wrote:
(quoted from post at 13:29:28 06/04/20) Hi Larry,
I've been using the Universal Hydraulic Fluid from TSC.
Can you suggest anything different for me to use?


If that's the "Travelers Premium Universal Tractor/Trans Hydraulic Fluid" then it should be fine. If it's the TSC "303" fluid then you should replace it with something that says on the label that it meets or exceeds the M2C134D specification.

If you replaced the fluid and filter and used the Travelers Premium fluid, and it's still getting air in the fluid, my bet would be the pickup screen is clogged. If that is the case then you will need to open up the front of the transmission.
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sean,
Thank you, that'f good info.
I'm confident that it has nothing but the Travelers Premium Universal in it - which leaves the pickup screen as you have described.
Is that something I will need to split the machine to do or is it more accessible?
Thanks
 
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Sean in PA
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

As far as I am aware, you will have to split the tractor to get to the pickup screen, but I've never had one of those apart so I'm not 100% sure. It is behind the pump and control valve assembly which is on the input shaft of the transmission, so I assume that you would split it between the engine and trans and pull the entire input shaft, pump and control valve assembly as a single unit and the pickup tube and screen is on the the back side of the valve. From the parts drawing it looks like there's a screw holding it in place and it seals to the valve body with just an o-ring since it is a suction line.
 
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Check Break
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote


If you remove the pickup screen, you may as well rebuild the shuttle. You're all the way in at that point. If you have lots of time, pull a sample of that oil out the drain under the transmission case (taking care to clean the bottom of the case first to avoid contamination) and send it in for oil analysis. Your local CAT dealer can do that for you, as can JD and any heavy truck dealer. Use a clean quart jar. If you're dealing with air and the oil looks as good in the jar after an hour as it did in the Traveler's bucket, maybe skip the sample. If it doesn't, get a sample kit from the dealer, fill the sample bottle, and wait for the oil analysis.

You may be able to see the screen by removing the transmission shift cover and shifter. It will be down under the gear train, at the front of the transmission case. At this point it will be submerged in oil, so another drain will be necessary to get a look at it. If it's full of crud, it will impede shuttle operation but I'd have to cogitate on it a bit to conclude it's the cause of the condition of your fluid.

There's not a lot you can do from the outside of your shuttle. You can check pressure. I'd rule out water in the fluid first, either with a glass jar or oil sample, then get a manual and hook up a pressure gauge to the test port in the bell housing. When she craps out, what kind of pressure do you have.

On the other hand, if you are up for an adventure, you can rebuild the shuttle and get back to work. There's some info online that will help you with this. Post back when you decide how to proceed.
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check Brake,
Hmm sounds like a pretty big job to split the machine and get to the screen fully.
Going to have to think on that one a bit and do some research.
Will keep you posted.
Thank you
 
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DustySawyer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sean,
Definitely will have to do my research and figure out if it's something I can handle doing. I had a fellow who was supposed to do all this for me last year..... Not sure what he did to get it moving but he did not split the tractor like he claimed he did. The only work I could see he did was at the top of the converter and the shift/trans cover - simply because there was a new gasket installed on both.
 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Transmission/Converter overheating Reply to specific post Reply with quote

DustySawyer wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:15:33 06/05/20)
I had a fellow who was supposed to do all this for me last year..... Not sure what he did to get it moving but he did not split the tractor like he claimed he did. The only work I could see he did was at the top of the converter and the shift/trans cover - simply because there was a new gasket installed on both.


He worked on a valve body.
 
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