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2n new build losing prime

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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey guys, I've got a 2n headache. Here's the deal, new sleeves, pistons, seals, gaskets, oil pump body (3/4 gears), line bore and machine work, new pick up and relief valve and spring, new valves and everything. Checked crank, cam and all with mic, it's to spec 30/30. New .30 rod and main bearings. Packed oil pump for initial start up, got oil flow from block. Both oil gallery plugs are in. After initial break in I stopped the engine and let it cool. Started it up again, started hearing some noise, no oil pressure, primed through relief hole, low and behold, oil pressure........until I cut it off and let if sit around 15 mins. No oil pressure. I know everything is to spec. Torqued and all. The only thing I can think of is the paper gasket at the pick up isn't sealing and allowing the hot thin oil the seep out and lose its prime. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm running 10w40 for break in. I'm in alabama so thicker oil isn't out of the question either being that we dont know what winter is.
 
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HCooke
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I don't think thicker oil will solve your problem. Drop the oil drain plug and check the pickup tube for looseness. Maybe tube was cracked
during assembly?
 
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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I was just addressing the type oil I'm using. Brand new pick up. Tight as a button.
 
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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm going to drop the pan shortly. I put a vacuum pump on the new pickup when I got it and closed the other end to make sure there were no issues.
 
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Jim L WA
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What is supposed to keep the oil from running out of the pump when it is shut down? I'm wondering if it is the pressure relief valve and your new one isn't seating. If oil could run out of the oil pick up gasket like you are thinking, then what's to keep oil from running out when ever anyone drains the oil for an oil change? Just some thoughts.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Jim L WA wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:16:29 06/19/20) What is supposed to keep the oil from running out of the pump when it is shut down? I'm wondering if it is the pressure relief valve and your new one isn't seating. If oil could run out of the oil pick up gasket like you are thinking, then what's to keep oil from running out when ever anyone drains the oil for an oil change? Just some thoughts.


Gravity keeps enough oil in the pump to maintain prime. Despite protestations to the contrary something is not to specification. My first WAG would be face width of new oil pump gears.

TOH
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

TheOldHokie wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:36:01 06/19/20)
CVPost-Jim L WA wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:16:29 06/19/20) What is supposed to keep the oil from running out of the pump when it is shut down? I'm wondering if it is the pressure relief valve and your new one isn't seating. If oil could run out of the oil pick up gasket like you are thinking, then what's to keep oil from running out when ever anyone drains the oil for an oil change? Just some thoughts.


Gravity keeps enough oil in the pump to maintain prime. Despite protestations to the contrary something is not to specification. My first WAG would be face width of new oil pump gears.

TOH


PS> New oil pump body needs to be align honed to get proper bearing clearances on the front main. That is a different issue but needs to be addressed.

TOH
 
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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The pump gears are 3/4" in a new
housing. Bushing was pre center reemed
with pump housing from the store. Just
put it back together with the same
issue. New pick up, no
cracks,dents,dings nothing. It is to
spec. Put the old relief valve back in
and has the same issue. I can prime it,
crank it and have oil pressure. Stop it
and wait 5 minutes, no oil pressure.
 
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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

New oil pump build kit.
 
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wore out
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Check how much clearance there is between the "sides" of the oil pump gears and the housing using Plastigauge.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Thecardoc wrote:
(quoted from post at 19:08:06 06/19/20) The pump gears are 3/4" in a new
housing. Bushing was pre center reemed
with pump housing from the store. Just
put it back together with the same
issue. New pick up, no
cracks,dents,dings nothing. It is to
spec. Put the old relief valve back in
and has the same issue. I can prime it,
crank it and have oil pressure. Stop it
and wait 5 minutes, no oil pressure.


I heard you the first time and I gave you something to check. Dont assume anything. Use a micrometer and check the actual dimension of one of your "new 3/4" gears". It should measure .725.. There are lots of junk kits on the market with new gears that are roughly .010 undersize. Let me repeat, those kits are unusable JUNK and will not pump reliably.

Your new oil pump housing is also a main bearing cap. Caps and blocks are bored as a matched assembly by the factory. You cannot simply swap caps from one block to another. If you replace ANY cap on an engine block you have to rebore the block and other caps to match. If you dont the bearing bore of the new cap will be out of round and alignment with the other bearing bores. This is basic engine building 101.

TOH
 
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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In my initial post I said I had it
lined bored. Every part I purchased
came from YT. Except my engine kit.
There was no attitude in any of my
replies, calm down. Was in the middle
of putting everything back together
when I responded, I checked the gears
with my dial caliper.
 
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TheCarDoc
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I will pull it back down tomorrow and
pull the housing again.
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Thecardoc wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:30:17 06/19/20) In my initial post I said I had it
lined bored. Every part I purchased
came from YT. Except my engine kit.
There was no attitude in any of my
replies, calm down. Was in the middle
of putting everything back together
when I responded, I checked the gears
with my dial caliper.


Calm as cucumber and I simply missed the line bore comment. I am trying to help you but you are not giving specifics. What did the oil pump gears measure?

TOH
 
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TimInd
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 2n new build losing prime Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree with Cooke. check that pickup tube.
 
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