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Clicking from solenoid

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dlk0247
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:02 pm    Post subject: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello All!

We have a 1943 Farmall M that was converted to 12V a while ago. Recently, I was able to get it started and ran it but it was misfiring really bad. Since the misfiring, I set timing, rebuilt the carb, and rebuilt the wiring harness. Since then, I have not been able to start it and now I hear a loud clicking sound coming from the solenoid. I tried replacing it but have not had any luck and continue to hear the loud click even in the new solenoid. I checked my connection point and made sure I'm not losing voltage. While doing so, I noticed I was only getting about 0.81-0.88 volts between the ignition and starter bolts on the solenoid.

Can anyone help me out with this at all?
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check and make sure the battery has 12.6 volts or more first. If it does good chance you have a poor battery cable connection either at the battery of ground or at the solenoid or a bad cable
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There is no solenoid on an M from the factory. So we are actually powerless to help This might help from Bob M.
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Bob M
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If the starter pinion has jammed into the flywheel ring gear it will cause the solenoid to click and do nothing else. It's a common problem when the ring gear teeth become worn.

Quick fix: If the tractor is on hard ground, put the transmission in 5th then rock it BACKWARD. It will only need to move an inch or two to free the starter (you will hear a clunk when it releases)

***OR***

Loosen the bolts that hold the starter to the bellhousing. Then pull/wiggle the starter as if to remove it. When you hear a clunk the pinion has released and you can now retighten the mounting bolts. The starter should now work again.

NOTE: If the pinion has jammed once it will jam again! The permanent fix is to replace the ring gear (been there, done that.....)
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What concerned me (and why i didn't give unjamming info) is the replacement of the solenoid. I suppose we will find out.
 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

DLK welcome to YT! Okay I want to hit the highlights of the collective knowledge given so far and clarify some other items. First I will agree that it is highly likely that the starter drive has jammed in the flywheel, hopefully this is the case and you can use one of the suggested fixes and move on. The frequency that this repeats will have to be assessed as you get the tractor running and use it more. At that point you can determine how far you want to go to fixing that problem. The voltage reading you gave between what you call the ..ignition and the solenoid bolts..? Please define ignition and solenoid bolts. By bolts do you mean ..terminals.. as in what the battery cable connect to? Secondly the simplest style of 12v conversion on a M does not use a solenoid, that does not mean one cannot be utilized. In that case a key switch that turns to a start position or a start push button would need to be added. Is the click you are hearing happen once per start cycle or is it a fairly fast repeating click, click, click...? The one issue with your situation that complicates things is that you say you completely rewired the electrical system. So this makes it a question of is it a mistake in your wiring layout or is something in the system malfunctioning. Sorry, if this insults you in any way, but I assume if you were 100 percent certain your wiring was correct you would not have had to come here for help.
 
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Bob M
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Good point Jim!

I suggested jammed starter because I had this issue on my new to me Super H. The PO had replaced the OEM saddle switch with a solenoid in an attempt fix an intermittent no start problem.

The root cause however turned out to be a worn ring gear. Once I replaced the ring gear the problem went away. I left the solenoid in place - it has been starting perfectly for 15 years now.
 
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BarnyardEngineering
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Solenoids click. That's what they do. You normally can't hear it above the starter turning the engine over. When all is quiet, though...

When they click they connect the power from the battery to the starter. That's not happening in your case.

Voltage is only part of the picture. You can have good voltage with a poor connection that won't pass enough current to turn the starter.
 
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dlk0247
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:19 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you for everyone that replied to my post. I will admit that I am not familiar whatsoever with older gas tractors as I am more familiar with diesels.

I am very confident in my rewiring but the question I am faced with is if it is the same prior to the rebuild as a 12v conversion was done by my wife's grandfather many years ago.

I did remove the starter and the teeth appear to be very worn.

The clicking I hear is a single click per start cycle versus a consistent clicking while I am hold in the start button.

I'll attach some photos and maybe it will further assist in your prognosis.

Thanks!
 
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dlk0247
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you for everyone that replied to my post. I will admit that I am not familiar whatsoever with older gas tractors as I am more familiar with diesels.
I am very confident in my rewiring but the question I am faced with is if it is the same prior to the rebuild as a 12v conversion was done by my wife's grandfather many years ago.

I did remove the starter and the teeth appear to be very worn.

The clicking I hear is a single click per start cycle versus a consistent clicking while I am hold in the start button.

I'll attach some photos and maybe it will further assist in your prognosis.

Thanks!
 
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dlk0247
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Would anyone have the proper wiring schematics for a 12V converted Farmall M?
 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would have asked for pictures the first time but I knew since you were new you would not be able to post them until your post count is 5. That is just a way they keep malicious posting of unwanted photos on a family oriented site. Since we cant see the photos yet I would like to know about the less than one volt reading between the what you call the ..ignition and the solenoid bolts.. please define these locations as I asked about in my first post. Hope you understand that the ignition as in the spark system has nothing to do with the start circuit of your tractor. If ignition in your terms means the switch with the key, then please call it that. Bolts on a solenoid does not define to me very well what you are taking the voltage reading on. Please be more precise, many folks that come here for advice forget we cannot see what you are looking at. Maybe we should go about it this way. I will post a link to the ..Site Comments.. topic section here. Please place a post there with the topic ..YT support, new poster would like to post pics.. they will then reply and allow you to post pictures. Do not worry that there are not similar posts like that there; trust me this is the correct thing to do to be able to post pictures at this point. One more thing that would be helpful. Put the starter back on and short across the terminal posts on the solenoid with some piece of metal like a 5/16 bolt. If that cranks the engine we know that we need to figure out how to correctly get power to the starter because it works. If it will not crank it could be the starter is bad, but there are still other things to rule out before we condemn it.
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This should be close to the diagram you need. Only difference is I think you are energizing the solenoid directly by a start terminal on your key switch. You dont tell us if you have an alternator or a generator. A generator maybe 12v positive ground or negative ground and an alternator is 12v negative ground. It may indicate it is for a Ford that does not matter.
Wiring diagram

 
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dlk0247
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

To answer your question, they are the two posts on the front of a four post solenoid mark "I" and "S".
 
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dlk0247
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Clicking from solenoid Reply to specific post Reply with quote

In response to arcing the two post on the front of the solenoid, I am not getting any cranking but still only hear a single "click" from the solenoid when arcing with a 3/4 inch wrench.
 
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