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1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery


 
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SilentNoise
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:27 am    Post subject: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi there. New to the forum.

I have a 1960 Farmall 460 gasser that was included with my acreage buy 3 years ago. It ran decently, but was definitely neglected by the last owner. Last year, I ran it a few times until it suddenly stopped in the fall. Now I can't even get a click out of the ignition. There isn't even lights. I've tried bypassing the 4-point switch with maintained (key) and momentary (button) switches to mimic the original configuration and bypassing all of the gauges, but still absolutely nothing.

It has a 12V generator with neg battery ground. The resistor was shot, and I've now replaced the coil and resistor. The starter was replaced a couple years ago.

Now, as I connect the positive line to the battery, I instantly hear the battery start to boil and you can feel that it begins to get warm. I've unwrapped all of the wire looms and can't find anything grounding themselves out.

Any ideas?
 
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Russ from MN
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You have a dead short somewhere, and it sounds big! I would disconnect all components of the electrical system, and then test one at a time
with a test light in series, when you find the short the light will come on. The older Farmalls had a problem with the starter sticking
occasionally, but the switch would have to be engaged to cause your problem. Can you turn the engine over by hand? The starter used to
stick on our M, and we would just put it in high gear and rock one rear tire, it would pop free.
 
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old
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sound like you have a very bad short if ti does that fast. Could be the starter or if it has a solenoid it could be bad or a battery cable that is bad and rubbed insulation off of it and shorting out. Or could also be a bad Voltage regulator
 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Are you sure you do not have a bad battery? If there is a problem with the plates in the cell of a battery it can do that. But
on top of that without any load turned on there should be not draw on the battery. First thing I would do is take it out and
get it tested at an auto parts store. Of course you have to make sure it is properly charged first, if you have a charger if
you connect it and see the same boiling your battery is likely bad. In a pinch you could connect it to a vehicle with jumper
cables and let it idle a good half hour. That should at least give it a good initial charge for testing. More on testing on the
tractor, if you connect the battery terminal to the battery post is there a large arc? If there is actually a short large enough
to make a GOOD battery boil almost instantly it has to be within the main starting circuit, in other words the large cables
to the battery or the stater itself. Any other circuit shorted that bad in that tractor would get so hot the insulation would
melt off and the conductor would burn in two. I would unhook the battery cable off the starter terminal tape it and
reconnect it at the battery then see if you get the same result, I suspect that the positive battery cable has the insulation
worn through somewhere along its routing out of the battery box and to the starter. After that test disconnect the battery
again. If this proves to not be the case remove the other wires from the starter terminal and reinstall the battery cable on
the terminal by itself. Now try reconnecting the battery. If it now shows the short again the problem is in the starter or the
starter solenoid. I will attach a wiring diagram for your tractor, make sure to reference the F460 section.
Wiring diagram

 
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used red MN
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I should have added welcome to YT!
 
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rustred
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Do the simple thing first. Get a booster battery or vehicle and hook the
pos. To the starter terminal. Ground the other cable to starter or trans. Get
a screw driver or heavy wire and go from the pos. Terminal on the
solenoid to the S terminal on solenoid. It will then engage the starter. If
starter is good. If nothing happens here u have a starter problem. Need to
start some place instead of guessing
 
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SilentNoise
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I appreciate all of the suggestions. I'll get out the meter and light again tomorrow and poke around some more, but I like the simple battery charger to the starter idea to begin with. Keep it simple, right?

This battery may be cooked at this point, but it does still hold charge, and should be good enough to test with for the time being at least anyway. I'm trying not to hook up my other one until I get things sorted.

Nothing like chasing electrical gremlins!
 
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Janicholson
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

A battery that boils near instantaneously is dangerous. It has an internal short and can produce radical anounts of
hydrogen, sparks, and explosions. Please don't use it. No matter that it will crank or hold a charge just replace it now.
There is little that is certain, this is one of them. Jim
 
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old
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I agree with Jim and if you try to use that battery you could get hurt easy or even loose your eye sight due to it blowing up in your face
 
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SilentNoise
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-old wrote:
(quoted from post at 22:16:38 05/11/21) I agree with Jim and if you try to use that battery you could get hurt easy or even loose your eye sight due to it blowing up in your face

Absolutely! I definitely won't be cranking with this battery at any point. I'm only connecting it for a split second right now, just long enough to see if there's power in a line right now, then pull the positive. It's slower going this way, and a lot of back and forth, but I don't need to wreck another battery while troubleshooting.

I've got a couple other batteries around that can be used once I get to the point where I'm ready to start trying to turn it over.
 
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SilentNoise
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1960 Famall 460 gaser backfeeding to battery Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok, got the backfeeding sorted out. Turns out that two older lines were a little brittle in an area that I had a hard time seeing. I'm assuming that they'd cracked (a little melty now) and were arcing against each other.

So not that I've got that sorted, I've replaced the battery with a brand new one.

The previous owner has replaced the original key and push button with a 4-point key switch. I can get it to fire easily, but as soon as it catches and I let go of the key, it instantly dies. I can keep it running if I hold the key just a tiny bit after it fires up, so I'm thinking that the backfeeding may have cooked the switch a little. Going to test that theory with a pair of toggle and momentary lever switches, mimicking the original ignition, and if I'm right, a new 4-point is cheap and easy to replace.
 
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