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The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem?

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hogluvr
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:01 pm    Post subject: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

So I found out that the needle in the carb WAS indeed sticking, that is a whole nother story. Pulled the distributor, points looked pretty burnt and were gapped incorrectly @ .025, dressed them and regapped at .015. Checked timing while I was at it, looked pretty much spot on. Reassembled, hooked up my new adjustable spark tester, hit the button and saw spark and at that same moment the tractor seemed like it wanted to start! Then back to no spark. Jumped the key switch and that is where I noticed something I saw the last time I did it. I hooked an alligator clip to one side of the switch and it sparked? Nothing touching anything else. Any idea what is going on there? As mentioned before it was converted to 12V and rewired. I was sitting on the seat pondering things and all of a sudden I saw smoke coming from what I am going to call a junction block, looks like mica or something with 3 terminals, two on top have some sort of steel thingies hooking them together with either a threaded rod or a spring? I immediately pulled the hot terminal off the battery. I checked all the wires, and there aren't many, for any chafing or grounds but all looked ok. I did notice as I was cleaning up that I had left the key on, don't know if that could have caused it. Just for shits and giggles I hooked the battery up and tried to start it again briefly, still nothing. Touched that part that had been smoking earlier and it burned my finger. Something just doesn't seem right with all this. I'll try to post a pic of how it's wired up in case someone sees something glaringly wrong. I'm ready to pull my damned hair out if I actually had any!

 
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kossuth
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

hogluvr wrote:
(quoted from post at 15:01:41 05/15/21) So I found out that the needle in the carb WAS indeed sticking, that is a whole nother story. Pulled the distributor, points looked pretty burnt and were gapped incorrectly @ .025, dressed them and regapped at .015. Checked timing while I was at it, looked pretty much spot on. Reassembled, hooked up my new adjustable spark tester, hit the button and saw spark and at that same moment the tractor seemed like it wanted to start! Then back to no spark. Jumped the key switch and that is where I noticed something I saw the last time I did it. I hooked an alligator clip to one side of the switch and it sparked? Nothing touching anything else. Any idea what is going on there? As mentioned before it was converted to 12V and rewired. I was sitting on the seat pondering things and all of a sudden I saw smoke coming from what I am going to call a junction block, looks like mica or something with 3 terminals, two on top have some sort of steel thingies hooking them together with either a threaded rod or a spring? I immediately pulled the hot terminal off the battery. I checked all the wires, and there aren't many, for any chafing or grounds but all looked ok. I did notice as I was cleaning up that I had left the key on, don't know if that could have caused it. Just for shits and giggles I hooked the battery up and tried to start it again briefly, still nothing. Touched that part that had been smoking earlier and it burned my finger. Something just doesn't seem right with all this. I'll try to post a pic of how it's wired up in case someone sees something glaringly wrong. I'm ready to pull my damned hair out if I actually had any!
That 3 point deal is your coil resistor. If you let the smoke out of it I suspect youve done toasted it and perhaps your coil too. In short the lower post is used as a terminal block for the wiring on the tractor. On the upper two legs one post goes to the ignition switch the other to the coil if everything is 6 volt. The other leg of the ignition goes to the batter connection portion that acts as a terminal block. With yours being a 12 volt conversion I believe you need an additional ballast resistor if your running the OE style coil.

Im sure somebody will correct me if Im wrong here but thats my take on it.
 
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Den N Ms
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hogluvr you say,I saw smoke coming from what I am going to call a junction block.
That is normal especially with a new OEM ballast resister as they will smoke when new with the ignition switch on and the points in in the distributor closed and making contact.
You say that it has been converted to 12 volt ,BUT is the coil 12 volt?If it is a new 12 volt coil you need to remove the white ceramic resister in your picture and just hook the two wires together.The white ceramic resister in your picture is used ONLY with a 6 volt square coil with a 12 volt system.
Note keep fingers off OEM resister with switch on HOT!!!
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:23 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Den N Ms wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:34:21 05/16/21) Hogluvr you say,I saw smoke coming from what I am going to call a junction block.
That is normal especially with a new OEM ballast resister as they will smoke when new with the ignition switch on and the points in in the distributor closed and making contact.
You say that it has been converted to 12 volt ,BUT is the coil 12 volt?If it is a new 12 volt coil you need to remove the white ceramic resister in your picture and just hook the two wires together.The white ceramic resister in your picture is used ONLY with a 6 volt square coil with a 12 volt system.
Note keep fingers off OEM resister with switch on HOT!!!

X2. hot won't hurt the resistor..


 
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hogluvr
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 5:07 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Ok at least now I know what that thing's called! The top left wire from the resistor goes to the ballast resistor, the other wire on the ballast resistor goes to the coil. The top right wire on the resistor goes to the key switch. The two lower wires on the resistor go to the key switch and the amp meter. Does that sound correct. According to what you guys are saying it's wired up for a 6v coil? How can I tell if it's a 6v or 12v coil? And where do I go from here, I still have intermittent/no spark? I honestly think now if I can get that issue sorted she will start right up!
 
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Smokeonthewater
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


My 12v coil says 12V on it

If you have pulsed power to the coil while you have no spark, replace the coil
 
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hogluvr
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Is there any way to test it?
 
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Smokeonthewater
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Remove the coil, connect a test light between the power wire on top of the coil and the contact on the distributor.... crank engine and see if you have a flashing light....

Test the coil.... connect pos in the correct voltage to the top and connect the dist cap contact point is to your spark tester... then breifly touch neg to the dist contact point and you should have a strong spark every time you remove it

Oh and by the way.... a little southern wisdom for ya..... There's a reason our first thought is "poke it with a stick" hurts way less than "see if it bites my finger"
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Smokeonthewater wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:04:04 05/16/21) Remove the coil, connect a test light between the power wire on top of the coil and the contact on the distributor.... crank engine and see if you have a flashing light....

Test the coil.... connect pos in the correct voltage to the top and connect the dist cap contact point is to your spark tester... then breifly touch neg to the dist contact point and you should have a strong spark every time you remove it

Oh and by the way.... a little southern wisdom for ya..... There's a reason our first thought is "poke it with a stick" hurts way less than "see if it bites my finger"
Since those white ceramic resistors are so notorious for having a wide & random range of resistance values, the first thing I would do is clip a jumper across it to short it out and then try to start. WARNING: do not leave ignition switch on & not cranking or else excessive current may damage coil.
 
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deanostoybox
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

How can I tell if it's a 6v or 12v coil?

Front mount coil should read about 1Ω if 6V and about 2.5Ω if 12V. From the top terminal to the pigtail, or from the top terminal to ground if coil is installed on the distributor and the points are closed.
 
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TractorTucker
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I doubt this is your problem but if those
crimp on connectors get moisture under the
yellow plastic they can oxidize causing a
bad connection to the wire. Unless one of
those connectors gets extremely hot you're
probably okay.
 
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Smokeonthewater
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

JMOR wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:37:39 05/16/21)Since those white ceramic resistors are so notorious for having a wide & random range of resistance values, the first thing I would do is clip a jumper across it to short it out and then try to start. WARNING: do not leave ignition switch on & not cranking or else excessive current may damage coil.


Agree.... also I'll say that if it were mine, I would probably just pick up a 12v coil and ditch the add on resistor altogether.... one less point of failure
 
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hogluvr
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


If the coil is toast that's exactly what I'll do. I'm going to replace those toasty points as well, anyone have any recommendations? I run Blue Streak brand in my old Harleys, lotta cheap crap out there
 
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hogluvr
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote


MAYBE found my problem, again! 🤔

Jumped the ballast resistor and seemed to get consistent spark, picking one up at TSC tomorrow and crossing my fingers, AGAIN. BTW coil IS still 6V so it is needed...
 
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JMOR
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: The saga continues: do I have a wiring problem? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

hogluvr wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:16:03 05/16/21)
MAYBE found my problem, again! 🤔

Jumped the ballast resistor and seemed to get consistent spark, picking one up at TSC tomorrow and crossing my fingers, AGAIN. BTW coil IS still 6V so it is needed...
So how much resistance does your white blob have? 1 Ohm, 5 Ohms?
 
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