Yesterday's Tractor Co.
Shop Now View Cart
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 9N,2N,8N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   Traditional YT Forum ViewClassic View   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile    Log inLog in 

UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start


 
Post new topic    
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Bart1080
New User


Joined: 27 May 2021
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:00 am    Post subject: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Every time I start this tractor from COLD, its extremely difficult...cranks over before it finally kicks in to almost flattening the battery. In fact generally I need to put the battery on the charger and swap it for the spare just been charged each morning. It was built in the 89 and is Diesel, low hours. Once started, it goes all day and can start/stop the tractor no problems.

Compression is good. The mechanic looked at the fuel pump, we replaced the glow plug and on testing yesterday, still fails to throw a flame as no fuel is being released.

The glow plug gets red hot really fast but there is just no fuel being released through the glow plug. We bleed the line but still struggling to get any fuel to be released. If there is a dribble of fuel, of course, it will flame up for a second.

As a test, a split second squirt of a "hard start" spray in the air intake and it instantly starts every time from dead cold.

Just struggling to find info on how the fuel is released into the glow plug.





This post was edited by Bart1080 on 05/31/2021 at 01:29 am.

 
Back to top
View user's profile
Dieseltech
Tractor Guru


Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 9950
Location: Indiana

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The Thermostart intake heater has two coils, first one gets hot to ignite the fuel the second coil lets in later. On my Ferguson diesel you can hear the flame start at
about 14 seconds of heat time, then engine is cranked to draw in the warm air in for cold starting. After engine starts the intake air going past the coil cools the unit
to stop the fuel flow after the heat switch is off. What KILLS a Thermostart is using them without fuel at the inlet port. Also, on Long tractors the fuel stop should be
pushed ahead while cranking to DEFLECT the small rod at the pump advance block. When that rod is pushed off center it blocks off the fuel to the advance piston, keeping
the timing retarded to help cold starts.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
derwen1959
Long Time User


Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1137


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What oil are you using in engine?
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bart1080
New User


Joined: 27 May 2021
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-derwen1959 wrote:
(quoted from post at 10:48:12 05/30/21) What oil are you using in engine?


Just normal diesel engine oil. Not sure how this would affect the deisel coming out at the thermostart?

This post was edited by Bart1080 on 05/30/2021 at 09:01 pm.

 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bart1080
New User


Joined: 27 May 2021
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Is the fuel stop pressed manually? See pic shows the reservoir that supplies diesel to the thermostarter

This post was edited by Bart1080 on 05/31/2021 at 12:13 am.

 
Back to top
View user's profile
derwen1959
Long Time User


Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1137


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:15 pm    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have single cylinder petter driving sawbench and it
makes a huge difference what oil is used when
starting cold and it's a hand crank start
15w/40 Requires a lot of cranking but HD30 is ok
Also putting a 200-1 ratio of universal 2 stroke oil in
Fuel also helps starting
I would say that the engine should start up good
without thermostart in mild weather
One more thing.... we used to have JD 2040 tractor
when I used to help a neighbour do his harvest the
tractor would perform a lot better, his diesel was
from a different supplier and was a darker colour
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bart1080
New User


Joined: 27 May 2021
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ah, thanks for the additional context. The cranking isn't an issue. It cranks over very strongly & If I squirt for just a 1/2 second some "hard Starter" fluid in the air intake, its starts in a split second.

I've had the air intake hose off and when turning on the brand new glowplug/Thermostarter, it glows plenty but has little to no diesel for a flame to be created. I'd replaced the thermostarter to test if it would solve the problem as the old one behaved in exactly the same way....thinking it might have been something to do with the valve opening in the thermostarter not opening.

So now its back to trouble shooting a bit further down the line with the next being the small canister that feeds to diesel into the thermo. I've got a photo but this site seems to not upload it and its only 500KB (very small)

This post was edited by Bart1080 on 05/31/2021 at 01:00 am.

 
Back to top
View user's profile
derwen1959
Long Time User


Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1137


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

By the looks of the glass bowl you are using white
or road diesel which could be the problem . As I
said previous in mild weather conditions it should
start without using thermostat also what condition is
engine? Is it blowing through breather
 
Back to top
View user's profile
derwen1959
Long Time User


Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1137


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Try spinning it over for a few seconds with lever in
stop position to warm up the cylinders then push in
stop and see what happens
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Bart1080
New User


Joined: 27 May 2021
Posts: 5


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 2:49 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-derwen1959 wrote:
(quoted from post at 02:46:06 05/31/21) By the looks of the glass bowl you are using white
or road diesel which could be the problem . As I
said previous in mild weather conditions it should
start without using thermostat also what condition is
engine? Is it blowing through breather


There is only one type of Diesel here in Australia - everything runs on it - tractors, buses, trucks of all sizes, cars.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
derwen1959
Long Time User


Joined: 27 Feb 2016
Posts: 1137


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I thought you are in USA
 
Back to top
View user's profile
grayrider
Tractor Expert


Joined: 19 Oct 2014
Posts: 2458


Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:36 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I owned a 445 Long about 30-31 years ago, always cranked well until the temperature got down in the 50s and then
I had to use starting fluid to crank it. One of my uncles had a 350 or 360 Long about the same time and his tractor
was the same way.
 
Back to top
View user's profile
Pycoed
Regular


Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 119
Location: West Wales

Report to Moderator

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: UTB 445u or Long 445 VERY hard to when cold start Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm surprised you need the Thermostart in OZ, over here in typical spring /summer temps of 15-25 Celsius I never needed it on mine.

Are you holding the stop button in when cranking? It retards the pump timing to make starting easier.

The Thermostart is usually gravity fed from a small reservoir of diesel filled by the inlector return lines - they daisy chain together & into the little tank then back to the main tank. Check that the line from the small tank to the Thermostart is clear. When 12v is supplied to the Thermostart it heats a small resistance coil which should glow red hot, at the smae time a bitmetallic strip heated by the coil should open up a valve to allow the diesel to run down from the tank. This is ignited by the coil & you should hear a woof as the flame starts in the inlet manifold, also the manifold should feel warm after a few seconds.
Be very careful using ether if you have powered up the Thermostart, 'cos a blow back could blow off the air cleaner complete with a few pints of oil or worse.
Mine wouold start at temps down to -5 or so using the Thermostart, but I didn't need it if temps wer above say 7-8 Celsius. Hope this helps - they are a very useful sized tractor
 
Back to top
View user's profile
:   
Post new topic    Yesterday's Tractors Forum Index -> Lesser Known Classics All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  

TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

YT Home  |  Forums

Modern View Forum powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters