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9n ratcheting starter drive extended

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Ddavis6384
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:10 am    Post subject: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I cant seem to get the starter drive to release and retract. I
have spun the drive wham installed on the starter, and put
pressure on it. But it just wont release.
What am I doing wrong?
 
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Did you try it on a wire brush wheel like on a grinder?
 
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R Geiger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I would install the starter and start the engine. It should retract!
 
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Ddavis6384
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I dont have an operating bench grinder. So I used a wire brush on a drill, but it apparently doesnt spend it fast enough. Then I used the starter to spin the drive, but I still cannot get the Bendix to retract. I would have thunk the starter would spin more than fast enough!
 
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Ddavis6384
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That is not an option. That starter wont come close to going
in with that Bendix extended. A little thing called the fly wheel
gets in the way!
 
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R Geiger
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ddavis6384 wrote:
(quoted from post at 14:21:58 06/19/21) That is not an option. That starter wont come close to going
in with that Bendix extended. A little thing called the fly wheel
gets in the way!

I have done it on one of my 8n's. the bendix goes on the back side of the flywheel and when it is engaged it is pulled into the flywheel, towards the starter. It van be tricky to install with the bendix pulled back towards the starter.
 
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Ddavis6384
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Exactly!
 
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jimtrs
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ddavis6384 wrote:
(quoted from post at 16:21:05 06/19/21) ..... I used a wire brush on a drill, but it apparently doesnt spend it fast enough. Then I used the starter to spin the drive, but I still cannot get the Bendix to retract. I would have thunk the starter would spin more than fast enough!

A drill won't spin the drive fast enough to cause it to retract. Spinning the starter itself won't either. You need to get the drive to spin faster than the starter spins. That's what causes it to retract. Some bench grinder wire wheels won't even do it. Too much slippage. Try the grinding wheel itself on the housing part of the drive, carefully.
 
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Fritz Maurer
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:06 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The speed of the starter is not what unlocks the latch. The drive is over-driven by the flywheel until centrifugal force lifts the plungers, and the drive is forced rearward along the helix. This all occurs in a split second, within 1/2 turn of the flywheel. That is the purpose of the ratchet, to protect the motor from over speeding. Ns in a poor state of tune will often cough and disengage the starter in multiple attempts , and the starter is blamed when it is actually working the way it should be. It takes a pretty powerful wire wheel to retract the drive, like a 8 inch wheel on a 1 hp motor. Another way would be any small engine you could put a V- pulley on , and use a belt. Again, the pulley would have to be on the larger side. If you dont have any of this equipment, your last recourse is to disassemble the drive and retract it that way.
 
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Jim L WA
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Times two, what R. Geiger said. I had to do it on my NAA. On the 8N you may have to remove the block drain plug and loosen and move the oil filter out of the way.
 
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Ddavis6384
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I tried, for a considerable amount of time, To get the starter
into the tractor. It seemed that the shaft was being forced
sideways and never could line up straight enough to allow the
starter to go in all the way.
But if you guys say it can be done, Ill try again.
 
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R Geiger
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

CVPost-Ddavis6384 wrote:
(quoted from post at 11:13:24 06/20/21) I tried, for a considerable amount of time, To get the starter
into the tractor. It seemed that the shaft was being forced
sideways and never could line up straight enough to allow the
starter to go in all the way.
But if you guys say it can be done, Ill try again.
You have to go in at an angle to get the Bendix past the flywheel. My 8n's do have an elongated hole to help in that. not sure about your machine. Sometimes you have to hold your mouth just right or talk to it it a bit!

 
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Jerrycpp
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If this is the original type Bendix with the screw/spring lock, there is a crazy trick that actually works sometimes. An old Ford mechanic explained it to me 50 years ago. Sharpen a #2 lead pencil very sharp. Place the sharpened tip into screw slot, pointed end toward the inside of the drive. Break off the tip off the pencil. Slowly screw the drive back towards the retracted position. The blunt end of the pencil lead will catch on the end of the screw slot. Continue screwing the drive back to the closed position. The point of the lead will slide under the cap of the internal locking spring, unlocking the drive. I know it sounds crazy, but it actually works. I've tried it many times, and succeeded once or twice. Once the drive is retracted, the graphite pencil tip turns to graphite dust, and causes no harm. I had many opportunities to try this trick when I was selling auto parts. Invariably, the first thing a customer would do when I handed him the new starter drive was take it out of the box and unscrew it, locking it. In most cases, you could still install the starter, but in flathead Fords, as you have discovered, you can't install the starter with the drive locked out.
 
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R Geiger
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote


My 8n's look like this!
 
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Ddavis6384
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 9n ratcheting starter drive extended Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That for all your help. I used a friends grinder with a brush, and was able to spin the drive fast enough to get it to retract.
Now I think I can install the starter and start the tractor.
Only thing left to do is get the original starter drive parts out of the flywheel housing. Im hiring that done!!
 
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