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TEA-20 starting problems - part III


 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey all, hope you're well.

Ok, well we've some progress, but still some problems. We've finally got the awkward beast running, though I have to hold the choke out else it backfires (through the carb air intake!!!)and immediately dies. However we've had it running long enough to adjust the timing via distributor, and that seemed to help. We've looked at adjusting the settings on the carb, and the govenor, with so-so effects, but we feel pretty close now.

A couple of things we've noticed - plugs are new, but quickly get sooted up (poor mixture??) and also the fuel pipe is wrong (it looks like a homemade one, and runs round the front of the tractor, rather than the rear, so we're going to replace that), and the final thing is the exhaust seems to get really really hot. I know they do, but this does seem excessive. Does this point to anything?

So there we go - thanks to all the tips so far, we've got it going (to an extent!!) - hopefully you can point out how we might get to the next stage.

Any help, very gratefully received as ever.....
 
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CENTAUR
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote


The big screw under the fuel bowl would be the HIGH SPEED adjustment.I believe that if you would turn that one CCW, it would enrich fuel mixture to secure maximum RPMs & ECONOMY. Do not be afraid to adjust both ways till you get a feel of too RICH or TOO LEAN. You will not harm anything by doing this. This must be must be done at a governed high speed- working RPMs. Do this with NO-LOAD. Transmission in neutral and parking brakes locked.
The screw with the spring and slotted head is the idle screw or also known as low speed mixture screw, which also requires that you adjust it. To adjust properly; turn CCW to ENRICH and CW for TOO LEAN.
NEXT adjust the throttle stop screw to get the low speed you want. Then do the the idle screw or also known as low speed mixture screw idle mixture again till it is like you runs smooth. You will be dancing back and forth, but you will enjoy it once you get the feel of it. Then you will be not be intimidated again.The diagram that (PHIL,N.J.,AZ.,SASK) sent is a fixed MAIN JET carburetor which does not require any adjustment. CENTAUR
 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks CENTAUR - will give that a go and see how much dancing we get done!!!

Matt
 
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Robert B UK
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Matt, Just a thought - when I bought my TED 20 a few years back, it was a swine to start and keep running. Eventually changed the timing chain, the old one was so loose and worn it was impossible to maintain any sort of timing. May be worth looking.
 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Robert - thanks for the idea - we haven't looked at the timing chain at all, so might well be worth checking out.

Cheers, Matt
 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:24 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Sooted, fouling plugs = rich mixture (or worn rings).

Hot exhaust = lean mixrure.

(At least it does in aircraft. My TEA20 doesn't seem to care too much!)

You sure that Zenith carby isn't sucking air somewhere?? Last time I had a problem requiring the choke partially out, the carby was sucking air due to wear.

Send me an email before you buy a replacement timing chain. It may not be the chain - more likely worn crank shaft and cam shaft sprockets. John (UK) is a wonderful help - and knows the problems I had!

And the fuel line definately runs behind the fuel tank - not in front!
 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Bob - thanks for taking the time to reply again!

So I guess it's possible that we have worn rings and a lean mixture!

As for the carb, it's probably something we need to check again now we can get it running for an extended period of time. It's had a rebuild kit, so a new main gasket and a manifold gasket, so it shouldn't be leaking air, but you never know. If it isn't the gaskets, where else might it be worn?

Yes, I'm ordering a new fuel line today!! No more messing about.

Matt
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

From your description of the plugs and the manifold, I would supect several possibilities. If the fouling on the plugs is a dry, sooty black fouling, the mixture is too rich. If it's wet and oily, you've lost oil control with the rings or they are flat worn out.

The exhaust manifold getting really hot is indicative of late timing and/or too lean a mixture, and that can be caused by the retarded timing and/or an air leak around the carb metering system. Now if the plugs have dry sooty fouling and you have an air leak around the metering section of the carb, you have to over rich the mixture(either via the choke or by increasing the power jet opening) just to get it to run, causing your situation.

The most likely culprits for the air leak are the throttle shaft, the connect flange between the carb and the intake manifold, and the intake manifold to cylinder head connection. To check for leaks get the engine running and then CAREFULLY spray starting fluid around the the aforementioned locations. If you hit the leaky area, the engine will speed up when the starting fluid gets sucked in.
The fuel pipe while not OEM is something to deal with later as that is not the source of your problems unless it's not providing sufficient fuel.

If it were me, I would make sure the timing is correct (not just close) and also make sure that the centrifugal advance mechanism is working by noting that the spark timing advances when the engine rpm increases. Then check for the air leaks as described above. Do these check sytematically and check for proper operation after you change anything, writing down the results for future reference.
Don't just willy nilly start changing everything and then try to check. You'll never get to the root cause of the problem and you won't learn much in the process.
 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply Jerry - plenty to think about there.

I think we"ll start with the air leak principle - that"s come up a few times and seems to point to the problems we"re having.

Is there a particular check to ensure that the timing is spot on rather that just close enough? We"ve had the distributor rebuilt completely, so I would hope that the centrifugal advance mechanism is ok.

Will report back any findings.

Thanks again for your advice, Matt
 
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello Matt,

First of all. If I understand you correctly, you have got the engine running long enough to adjust the timing. This is not the way to do it.
The centrifugal weights starts to advance timing at very low speed, so when it idles the timing is advanced already. The way to do it is when the engine is stopped.

I will give you the correct procedure, but I need the engine number and distributor number.
The engine number is located above the oil filler cap, and a little forward.

Then, take a look at the numbers below.

Type 1:
Engine number S1E to S8995E
Distr. model D3A4
Distr. number 40132

Type 2:
Engine number S8996 and onwards
Distr. model D3A4
Distr. number 40146

Type 3:
Engine number S1E to S8996E
Distr. model D3A4
Distr. number 40146

Type 3 is actually a Type 1 engine with the type 2 distributor, as a Lucal Replacement distributor.

Please tell us what combination you have, type 1, 2, or 3.

I have a very strong feeling that you have too late timing. Both the sooting, bad running, and hot exhaust indicated this. In addition, setting the timing at idle speed will 100% sure fool you to believe you have a more advanced timing than you actually have. So, it is pretty many circumstantial evidences that you may have too late timing.


Best regards, Bill
 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Bill - many thanks for the info - I'm at work at the minute, but I'll ask my Dad to check out the tractor and post up the information as soon as I can get hold of him.

Ta, Matt
 
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Matt,
The way to check the timing chain is to first Rotate Crank in one direction (noting rotor) and then turn Crank in the opposite direction, noting the "Slack" before rotor moves

I don't know the Spec on your Engine but someone
should have it.

JMHO
 
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Jerry/MT
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have given a simple proceedure to check the timing that you should be able to find it in the archives under "Timing". If you can't find it, give me a holler on the forum and and I'll repeat it. I'm off to fix some fence and I don't have the time right now.
Cheers.
 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

With the engine running wave a plumbers propane torch(unlit, but valve open) around carb if at any point the engine changes pitch or runs differently your carb was sucken
 
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Matt Higgins
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: TEA-20 starting problems - part III Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Jerry - I've had a fairly extensive trawl back through the old threads and articles, and can't find yours.

If you have it handy and wouldn't mind forwarding it on, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks, Matt
 
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