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'52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help !


 
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Michael Adams
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:57 am    Post subject: '52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help ! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

This week I traced the wiring on my old '52 8N and created a Windows Meta File ( .wmf) showing the diagram (I do not know how to include it with this email). The alternator is Delco Remy and has three connections. The one marked BAT goes to the right side of ammeter; P1 goes to left side ammeter; P2 is open. A wire from left side of ammeter goes through ignition switch through a big resistor to + side 6 V ignition coil. As the resistor heats, voltage rises from 4+ to 6.24 V after about 30 seconds. When the ignition switch is OFF the + wire to ignition coil reads 12 V. 12 V battery + goes to left side starter relay. Another wire goes from that same left post of starter relay to left side of ammeter. Right side post of starter relay goes to the starter. The other side of ignition switch goes to that same left side of ammeter. The ammeter is +-30 amps. This 8N actually ran with this wiring setup, but I am sure it is wrong and amazed it even started. Slowly but surely I have been rebuilding this badly neglected tractor and the wiring issue is just a piece of what needs to be done. Q: 1. should P2 go to BAT on the alternator? 2. Do I need a light bulb or diodes/resistors in line with P1? 3. Is a 12 volt ignition coil (NAPA 14SB) better than the six volt coil (NAPA 7SB)? 3. Does the tractor own me or me own the tractor?
 
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Phil (NJ,Az,Sask)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: '52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help ! Reply to specific post Reply with quote


Q: 1. should P2 go to BAT on the alternator?
YES P2 is voltage sense and regulator will not Work. Alt will output MAX t.

2. Do I need a light bulb or diodes/resistors in line with P1?
YES but you need to move that wire to the NO (normally open) side of the Ignition Switch. The side that goes to the Resistor/Coil

3. Is a 12 volt ignition coil (NAPA 14SB) better than the six volt coil (NAPA 7SB)? Not if you have the right Resistor! You should not have a PTC resistor (Voltage changes over time) The voltage on the +ve side of the coil (points closed, ignition ON) will be 6 Volts and "Constant". The correct Resistor will be a "Fixed" automotive Type ~ 1.3 ohms.

3. Does the tractor own me or me own the tractor?
The tractor owns YOU

The Wiring of your AMMETER is Wrong! I will assume that it PEGS to the charge side and thus the "Right" (your term) side is the correct LOAD side. If that’s not true or you have a damaged (no reading) meter you will need to switch sides.

A) The wire to the Ignition Switch/Lights/ & alternator OUTPUT must all be on the "Right" (your term) side. The same side (load side) of the ammeter in all cases

B) The ONLY wire on the Left side (source side) is that wire coming from the Starter solenoid, left side of starter relay (your term)

When you have the meter connected thus (matches OEM Wiring)! It will show a discharge of ~ 5 amps with POINTS Closed and Ignition ON. The meter will read the charge RATE of the Battery when running, should start high and then drop to near ZERO when battery is fully Charged. Turning lights ON will result in a slight decrease (flick) but then it will go back to near Zero (this shows proper operation of the Regulator)

Hope this Helps,
 
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Michael Adams
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: '52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help ! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thank you for the reply. A friend in Idaho told me I am a victim of my 8N, but I prefer thinking of it as a slave to the 8N. Is the diode a 50 V 1 Amp diode? I think it would help to have a terminal block on the tractor. Someone put the starter relay/solenoid where I believe the terminal block should be.
I will check the Ohms on that resistor. It is in a ceramic rectangular holder. Maybe it is getting old too or else it was not the correct one to start with or both.
I am certainly learning a lot. I read the manuals, YT archives, and still need help from time to time. Thank you again.
 
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JOHN H
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: '52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help ! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

HEY A LITTLE HELP HINT HERE
get your wire tie and srink tube and when you install the diodes put the zip tie with the diodes then srink the tubin around the diodes and tie.. that for making it more stronger so it don't break so easy ..
 
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Michael Adams
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: '52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help ! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yesterday, between storms in Central Texas, I added a diode (50V 1A) from Radio Shack, a plastic looking terminal plug from an auto parts store for the alternator, moved wires around according to suggestions made. Now there is no 12 V leakage to the coil when the ignition switch is off. Smile P2 goes to BAT on the alternator now.
1. I have seen references to 3 amp, six amp, 1000 V diodes. What is right or is there a range? (obviously I do not know what the diode is for).
2. When the tractor still would not start I checked the points and found them gapped about .024 instead of .015 so I will adjust them and clean them this evening (if I can get to the Tractor Building - more rain coming)
 
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Phil (NJ,Az,Sask)
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: Re: '52 8N 12 Volt conversion - help ! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Now that you have your Ammeter working correctly you can use Ignition Flow chart.

The alternator must have P1 Plug removed (when using the flow Chart) because the diode will draw some current. 1 amp diode is OK but if it Fails,at some point, upgrade to 3 amps


The diode "starts" the alternator Charging and then blocks the ALT Self induced Voltage, required for regulation, from back feeding the Ignition & battery.

Your Tractor is a '52 SIDE Mount! YES?. The point Gap is .024 and NOT .015 (Front Mount)

The Current with side mount is >4 amps. The most common fault will be a "short" @ Grommet where the small wire from Coil enters the side of the distributor.

Goog Luck

 
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