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old farm house re-do


 
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Ray Iowa
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I know this is not specific to N"s but I need help. I want to rebuild my 1951 8N instead of remodeling my wife"s kitchen. Previous owners of my early 1900"s Iowa 2 story farm house removed a 10.5 foot section of exterior wall when they converted the porch into the kitchen. They propped a couple of 4" Shag Bark Hickory logs under it to support the load. Now I want to remove those to expand the kitchen island. I"m estimating that a couple 2x12"s sandwiching a 1/2" plywood will support the wall with little sag. Can I use less than 2x12"s? Space is critical. The wall supports the second story bedroom and the 10:12 pitch roof on a 16" wide balloon frame house.
 
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Joe in MI
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

That's weird. I have a '51 8n in my garage that's desperately calling my name....but I've been grounded from the tractor until the bathroom is remodeled. Women and their "priorities."

As far as your construction question - I would go w/ a header at least as big as what you said - 10 feet is a long ways with nothing under it, especially supporting a second story. They make engineered beams you might want to look into - more expensive, but better than having the house cave in and ruin your new island.

Joe
 
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OldTexan
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Consider going steel beam,, super strong and won't ever rot out... Ask around your area, bet you can find what you need at a salvage yard.,
 
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arthur ward
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

2x10 spf can span 13'. doug fir is stronger. 2x12 can span 14' easily. the problem lies with load. check your local building codes before you make a major mistake. ply between the 2x12 will definately be stronger than 2x10 & ply.
make sure the crownes are facing up.
if you have a 13' opening then i see NO reason why ply and 2x12 fir won't work. just make sure you use double shoulders under the beam.
 
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Bob Harvey
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Check out 'engineered wood products'. You can span your project without loosing 'headroom' with some of these items; 'Ganglam'( a multiple plywood type) or (forgot the darn name)a sized beam that is made from long strands of fibre. Use them lots. Good luck !
 
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Dunk
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'm with you here!!

I had an old mobile home frame I cut me a long piece out of for the middle beam of my 20 x 24 attached garage, with a 12/10 roof with storage above, I bolted 2 x 8s on both sides of it, with a 5 bolt pattern every 3 feet. It seems that it would hold up a train.
 
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john h
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

hire out the kitchen job. then you do rebuild 8n tractor , but overbid you remodel job so you get the cash to rebuild the tractor project then both of you happy ...
 
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Ed S. (IL)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I had a similar situation with our 88 y/o farmhouse (and the 8N is still in pieces in the machine shed, thank you very much), and went to the local Menards and had the guy look up a doubled engineered beam size to span 18' (which was the size of the hole we created in the side of the house). I think we used 2" x 14" (or maybe 16", don't remember exactly) beams, and for a safety factor, I bolted THREE of them together with construction glue (I had to room for them - you may not from your description). Four years later, no sag or any evidence that it wasn't enough.

es
 
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8N'r--WI
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:55 am    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ray---if your "clear span" is 10.5 feet, 2-2x12"s with 1/2" plywood would be stretching the limits of the header if used to support a second story of a house. I wouldn"t clear span more than 9.5"(113 inches) with 2-2x12"s and plywood.

If headroom is a concern, check out the laminated products available.

Another method is to use a 1/2" steel "flitch plate" sandwiched between 2 pieces of dimension lumber. That will hold a bunch of weight. Don"t know much about cost comparison so you will have to check that out.

I am sure you know that with the header system, all the weight that it holds above will be transferred to the ends of the header, down onto the shoulder studs (use 2 on each side) and down to the foundation, so make sure you have structural support UNDER the king/shoulder studs if they are sitting on the wood floor---

You say the house was balloon framed. What size floor joist were used on the second floor? If 2 x 10 (I doubt), the builder hopefully used the same size 2x10 as the "ledger board" (skirt, ribbon) and notched it into the long wall studs. Usually this was 1" material though.

If that skirt was not joined, but spans the open area where they removed your outside wall, that will take some of the load off of the "new" header you plan to install.

BTW---For a garage opening of 16", 3-2x12"s with plywood sandwiched between the 2x12"s is normally used in framing. IF it is not nailed well, that "beam" will develop a sag over time, even with just the weight of the roof on it. If you look at enough houses, you will notice there are a lot of "smiling" garage door openings, with corresponding sagging roof ridges.

HTH----Tim

Tim
 
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Ray Iowa
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

You're right on the ledger board. The original builder used 1" full thickness lumber and I remember in other parts of the house it was only 4" maybe 6", wide. Joists were 2x8" rough lumber on 16" centers for a 16' room. (I suspect someone removed a interior load bearing wall to make one large room out of two smaller rooms.) I jacked those up and sistered them. It is surprisingly stiff now. This is out in the country where the building inpsector doesn't roam. Farmers around here don't take kindly to meddling inspectors.

Thanks for your comments. This forum is the best anywhere.
 
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Bob Harvey
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: old farm house re-do Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Guess I should have read more thoroughly. Rule of thumb is 1" of depth for 1' of span. A triple 2x10 will do the job, 4 nails vertical every 2'.
 
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