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I just am not having any luck with this 9N

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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Spent a little time out in the garage today working on the 1939 9N. I decided to try to remove the water pump studs from the block. Remembering what Hobo told me about using vice grips to get the studs moving, and not wanting to shear off any more studs, I gave it a try. Well, I guess I am not too good at that either as I snapped all three off...

I am starting to visualize a name for this tractor finally - Stud-a-breaker :-)

Get the drill back out...

Dan
 
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crazy8
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

What was wrong with the studs?
 
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Dunk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Snapping ONE is enough to start asking for professional advise.. Do you have a oxy/cetiline or oxy/propane cutting torch?

If not it would pay for your labor.

Fore you want to start messing with them studs, you want to turn em white all the way down to the cast iron, don't melt em, but turn em white, all the way down.

You have to burn the iron oxide off un of em (rust) in the holes, it takes HEAT, and a hot of it!!
 
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I guess almost 70 years of corrosion(?) cementing them in place. I could tell the studs were very old and not in the best of shape anyway - plus they are really thin studs. Grade 8 studs will be going back in...

Dan
 
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have a propane plumbers torch. I have more time and energy than money. Not to mention, my "shop" is one side of my two car garage, I can barely walk around as it is once all the parts start coming off.

But, I guarantee my shop I build when I retire will have a welder and a big torch.

Dan
 
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TheOldHokie
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Grade 8 studs will be going back in.

You kill me - Grade 8 studs to hold a water pump torqued to probably all of 20-25 lb-ft! Henry's probably rolling in his grave at the thought....

TOH
 
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

It isn't for the torque it will be holding - it is to resist shearing when the next guy goes to remove it!

Dan
 
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Dunk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dan, that propane plumbers torch ain't worth much more than a match for this stuff.

Even ifn you graduated all the way up to a plumbers MAPP gas torch, just a match in the wind, NO that won't do what I am talking to you about.

You have to have a real torch, 10 times or more what them will do if you held them on it wide open all night.

I am talking about turning that stud WHITE, all the way down to the cast iron, without melting it, very close though.

It WILL screw out after that if done right. But it takes a REAL torch with HEAT!!

Not hundreds of degrees, but thousands of degrees.

BIG difference.

I hope I got that across with out seeming to forward...
 
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Dan
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

No - I understood what you said in the first post and I did not think you were to direct. My point was I didn't have a torch capable of that, and I don't have the space or money to acquire one or to haul it over to someone who does and have them charge me to remove them. That was the point behind my statement that I had more time and energy than money.

Dan
 
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Dunk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I wish we lived close!!
 
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Ken(Ark)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I'll bet the guy that had to work on my dads 58 ford after he sold it wishes my dad thought like you do . The wiring harness burnt up and my dad did a good job rewiring it . The only problem was all he had one 500' roll of white wire . He did do a pretty job wrapping the bundle with electrical tape .
 
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Hobo,NC
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The smaller the bolt gits the harder it is to break loose. I am sure you have broke a wire by just bending it back and forth, same will happen with any bolt grade 8 or not, its called work Harding. The same will happen when you work a stuck bolt back and forth the action over time will snap it. If the stud had deteriorated that bad you should have went rite to plan B. Heat is not the magic answer to all stuck bolt problems.

Next gut will have a hill of a time drill'n a grade 8, B kind and re-think.

You have put a spell on me, I have had more stuck problems lately than the law allows.
I went thru this same deal a few weeks ago and took pix but have not took the time to put it together.

Plan B pix

Must have heated it 10 times, on the Jeep and off, it would not break free and the stud was so thin I did not want to work harden it and break it off. Cut it off and left enuff to push a nut on it so I would have something to center a drill bit.

won on the left side and lost on the right, was able to knock the rest out and helicoil the Sum a butch.
 
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Dunk
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ken(Ark) wrote:
(quoted from post at 23:08:21 10/10/07) I'll bet the guy that had to work on my dads 58 ford after he sold it wishes my dad thought like you do . The wiring harness burnt up and my dad did a good job rewiring it . The only problem was all he had one 500' roll of white wire . He did do a pretty job wrapping the bundle with electrical tape .


I tell you what, there is a very good reason that Hobo is the way he is when it comes to you.

What the Ell are you talking about, and who to?? Me??

I wish I could figger that out, into out conversation, Ell it may just be me though, did you somehow go off on a tangent?

I may just be off my rocker....

Call me confused..
 
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keithr1
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

try using some pb blaster..spray them and let them soke then try..just an idea keith
 
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souNdguy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: I just am not having any luck with this 9N Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Dan.. by now you are the master at broke stud extraction.. but let me offer to you what i do ( now that it's too late for you to try ).

When i go to remove a stud, I hit it with penetrating oil.. even if only to go thru the motions. I then heat it with a plumbers or mapi torch. ( not great.. but better than 'hopeing' it will come loose by itself ).. i then quench the stud with penetrating oil.. i then whack it squarely on the head with a balpeen. If you have any inclination of re-using the stud.. run a nut on it to prevent too much mushrooming of it.. I usually don't even try removing it without 2-3 heat/quench cycles. Sometimes if i 'think' it's gonna be a real bugger.. I'll heat it a 4th time and then cool it with candle wax.. hoping that it will wick and also lubricate. I've had pretty darn good luck with that technique.. though it is a bit time consuming. On the other hand.. you are now probably so fast at drilling and chasing.. that it may actually be faster for yo to just snap them off flush and grab thge drill and chase and go for it!

hang in there buddy.. we are all counting on you.. no pressure.

Soundguy
 
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