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7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins

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Markloff
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey guys,

I'm lookin' to trade in my '95 IH 4700 LPX for something a little smaller to do my firewood hauling with. I'm looking for a rig that will get better mileage unloaded. I'll be trailering 2-3 cords instead of hauling 2 cords as I have been doing. I'm considering a good used F-350 dually with a 7.3 Powerstroke or a 3500 Ram dually with the 5.9 Cummins. Can anyone hear tell me the pro's and cons of each engine and truck? Has anyone here owned both? I'm looking to get into something cheap therefore a Duramax is probably out of the question and I am not interested in a 6.5. How about an E-350 van? How do they compare to the truck?

Mainly

-Stick vs. auto (I'm thinking stick, I'm sick and tired of replacing auto trannies)
-mileage
-quality of truck
-any other ideas

Thanks in advance for the input,

Mark
 
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wallacedw
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Oh what a can of worms this could turn into! Rolling Eyes Shocked Laughing

Well, I have not owned a Cummins but I do have a 96 F-250 7.3 automatic. It is a good truck. I also have a 2004 6.0 automatic. I bought both brand new. The 6.0 will flat outhaul/pull what the 7.3 will but at a cost of 3 to 4 mpg. The downside of the 7.3 trucks are the automatics. I have replaced transmissions in both trucks. The 7.3 at 100k miles and the 6.0 at 40k miles (not a common occurence at this mileage, just happened). The 7.3 has gobs of power and is reliable. I get around 17-18 mpg (but that truck has 200k miles on it). I had a F250 gasser with the 5 speed and it was ok but compared to a diesel it was wimpy. I like the automatics for pulling/towing better. I pull very heavy loads (15k - 20k lbs) at highway speeds a lot.
The Cummins is great in it's ability to be modified and tweaked. I don't really like the Dodge's I have driven because they seem to wander around the road a little more than the Fords but that could be just me (and that has NOTHING to do with engines). As far as the motor and power and reliability, I think they are pretty good.
I don't have any reason to not like the Duramax, but I haven't heard much good about them.
I guess that, for what you describe, I would go with the best price and what catches your eye. The hauling you are talking about isn't going to mean much to either truck. They will tow without breaking a sweat. I will say that fuel prices and maintenance may be something to consider. A diesel is more expensive in ALL area's. Oil changes, Filters, etc... I would say at least 30-40% more,(even more depending on what you have on the truck, example: an aftermarket air filter, secondary fuel separator/filters, fuel additives, the list goes on). You may want to look around on the forums of the trucks you are looking at.
For the Fords, I use:
http://forums.thedieselstop.com/forums/

My .02 worth.... but I will GUARANTEE that EVERYONE has an opinion on what is best in this arena and that really what matters is what you like. Try not to get to worried about who makes what. You will know the right truck when you see it!
 
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ericlb
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

i have a 94 dodge cummins in a 2wd 3/4 ton pickup, had since new get 28 mpg empty and average 18 pulling a 30 foot rv for 500 miles, presently i have 220,000 miles on it, it sees light farm use, hauls tractors around too, ive replaced the radiator at 150+ thousand miles and 1 tranny but it wasnt needed, [ misdiagnosis by ace mechanic it was a electrical problem]also 1 starter, thats all got no complaints, i got a buddy with a powerstroke, it runs good too when it runs, [ hasnt had the best of care either]
 
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ohio
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hey mark!

I've got a dodge one ton, with a 300 horse cummins and a five speed. It has a 12' flatbed, weighs 8300 lbs, and gets 20mpg. It has 190k on the odo.

The F.D. has ferd ambulances, w/7.3 p.s.'s, they get about 10mpg highway, (not very aerodynamic) and last about 80k before pump/headgasket issues arise.
 
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john_Bud
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Mark,

A cummins from the mid to late '90's with a manual trans will get 3-5 more mpg than a ford 7.3.

If you want the best milage, get a 3/4 ton and not the dually. Expect to lose 3-5 mpg just with the addition of the 2 extra wheels due to increased weight, rolling resistance and wind resistance.

Good luck finding one with low-ish miles and in decent shape.
 
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Markloff
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for chiming in ohio!

I've never doubted the Cummins wasn't the better engine but I've heard a 7.3 will get better mileage? Are they having any pump problems with the new ULSD fuel that's out now? I've always thought the unit injectors were better for poor fuel quality and lubrication issues. What are the pro's/con's of the old 12 valve Cummins with the inline pump vs. the newer 24 valve with the electronic pump? Are the old 12 valves easy enough to bump the HP up on? I would think they are a heck of a lot easier to work on yourself if you wanted to. I've had a few electrical problems with my 444E (Powerstroke) in my IH and the last thing in the world I want to do is chase electrical problems in a diesel!

Have you any idea how hard it is to find an intelligent opinion on the internet nowadays? Everyones an expert. Yea right! I was on a web site last night and a guy (14 year old probably) was saying that Cummins have a lot of head problems and generally have way more problems than the Duramax or Powerstrokes. Well, that's not what I've heard at all. There is way to much name brand orientation going on to get an honest opinion on what I'm looking for. I'm not looking to put a pi$$ on sticker in the rear window of any of my vehicles if you catch my drift. LOL I'm just looking for a solid work truck that I don't have to sink a lot of money into if something goes bad. It won't be a daily driver. That's why the Duramax and the new Powerstrokes are out of the question.

Mark
 
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Doug in IL
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

We have a '97 12 valve and a '02 24 valve. The older one is a 3/4 ton and the newer one a 1 ton. Both are 4 wheel drives, both are 5 speed manuals. The 24 valve can have lift pump problems. Ours did and I put a electic boost pump from Glacier Diesel(sp?) in the fuel line. That has cured the problem. The 12 valves can have the "killer dowel pin" problem. Mine had that too. It lost the oil, lost oil pressure and took the turbo out. It was under the 100000 mile warranty when it happened, so I was ok from a financial stand point. It doesn't have the dowel pin in it any longer. There are external dowel pin locking kits available now that can be installed to keep the dowel pin in place. As too mileage, the 3.55 geared 12 valve will get slightly over 20 mpg empty. The 4.10 geared 24 valve runs 17.5 to 18 mpg running empty. This would be with 70 mph Interstate driving conditions. Power wise, the 12 valve will blow the doors off the 24 valve running empty. Pulling trailers, I think the 24 valve pulls a little better. But I think that is mostly a function of the gearing difference. They have both been all around excellent trucks. The older truck has about 110,000 miles on it. The newer one about 150,000. We have had no real front end problems at all. The '97 has had one tie rod end replaced and the tracking bar is starting to get a bit loose. The '02 has had nothing done to the front end. They both have the original brakes on them. (We do very little city driving, mostly all road miles.) As too the Fords, I can't comment, as I have never owned a Ford diesel. But, I know lots of guys who like the 7.3's.
 
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Mike in Md
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The 444E is the same engine as the powerstroke,if you had problems with it in the Int. you will probably have the same problems in the Ford,and pulling pound for pound the PS will give you the same mileage as the Int.
 
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Markloff
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

"The 444E is the same engine as the powerstroke"

Yes I'm aware of that.

"and pulling pound for pound the PS will give you the same mileage as the Int."

I would sure think a pickup truck would do better than my International truck? I can't even get 11-12 miles per gallon out of it empty.

Mark
 
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Markloff
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for the info.

In the '97 12 valve with 3.55's is it just a matter of down shifting a gear to pull the hills like the '02 24 valve with the 4.10's? I definitely want the taller gears for running empty. Just out of curiosity what RPM are you at with the 3.55's at 70mph?

Thanks again,

Mark
 
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Doug in IL
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yes, if you down shift to 4th, the 3.55 will pull better than the 4.10 in fifth. It runs just slightly below 2000 rpm at 70.
 
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Tradititonal Farmer
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have Ford F550 with the 7.3 Powerstroke with
120,000 on it.Have not had any problems with the engine and also like the 6 speed trans.Its has the 5.88 gears in the rear end.I get around 13MPG
empty and 10 MPG pulling a 30' gooseneck. Ford has by far the nicest cab as every Dodge diesel I have been in shakes and rattles.The Ford drives as good or better than any car I have driven.
 
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ohio
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Don't get 4.10's if you can, I'm @ 2100 @ 65mph.

12 valve w/p7100 pump will make way more horse than you need, 24 valve w/vp pump is more civilized, better milage, less soot ect. (but not good for 1200 hp!)

Anyone who tells you these engines are prone to any problems other than rotten head gaskes (due to age & dirty coolant) is full of beans.


They put 'em in tractors, towmotors, buisness class trucks, gen sets, what have you. My opinion is that IH had a darn good engine in the dt360, and ford was way off track for buying the td444.
 
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ohio
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:37 pm    Post subject: My bad! Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The lift pump is an issue on the 24v engines! install a pressure gauge, or an idiot light before the injection pump. low or non existant pressure will destroy the fuel lubed vp pump!
 
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T_Bone
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: 7.3 Powerstroke vs. Cummins Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Mike & Mark,

From what I've read, the 444E has wet sleaves and uses a dirreent fueling PCM than the 7.3PSD that is a parent bore and uses a Ford designed PCM (lower torque).

The 444E has completely different torque ratings, about 850ft/lb@1400rpm and maximum HP@2600rpm, if I remember correct.

From the above, any 444E will out pull any of the 7.3PSD years, 99 thru 03. I think the 99PSD had max torque@1400rpm, 2000 to 2002@1600rpm and 2003@1800rpm.

I know in 2000 that Dodge had a huge problem with there 4wd pick-ups of having the "death wobble" front end that Dodge could not resolve on both gassers and diesels.

T_Bone
 
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