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OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order


 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hello,

I have a Wisconsin engine in an old Galion roller. A while back, I posted that I thought it was a VD4D. With the help of some of the members of this board, it was concluded that the first "D" is actually a "P" or a "G". There are very few clues to go by as to which letter it is though. The heads are cast iron, not aluminum. The distributor tag has the number 1GW 4159-A 11U on it. The serial number of the engine is 1981956. The numbers 3-1/2 x 4 and 80710 are also on the engine tag. After all this time since my first post, I now suspect that the telltale sign of the engine"s model number can be tied to the firing order of the engine. I believe that the firing orders are different on the VG4D and the VP4D. Three hours on Google, has turned up nothing useful. Does anybody happen to know the firing orders of these two engines offhand?

Thank you,
Greg
 
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Walt in Jaxn Tn.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Here's a link to a Wisconsin site that may be helpful.

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/partcatalog-engineswm.html

And here's a site that I visit sometimes as I piddle with a few old Wisconsins myself.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27

--Walt--
 
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garytomaszewski
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Go to yahoo groups there is a knowledgeable group there devouted to Wisconsin engines
 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Walt,

The Wisconsin site has been quite useful to me too. I found a manual for a Wisconsin AEH at that site for an old Buzzmaster tree saw. Unfortunately, they didn't have anything on the vp4d. Smokstak also is an interesting site that comletely slipped my mind. I did a search though, and nothing showed up for vp4d either. Thank you for taking the time to help out!

Greg
 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Gary,

I didn't know there was a Google group for this. I'll check them out. Thank you!

Greg
 
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teddy52food
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Take out all the plugs and connect them to the wires. Turn the engine over by hand with the ign on. Hold your finger over a spark plug hole and get each plug to fire at the end of the compression stroke and it will run. Write the order down and you will have it for next time.
 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi, Thank you for the suggestion on determining the firing order. This case is the opposite of the normal question though. I know what the firing order is, and which plug wire to put where. I am trying to use the firing order as a clue as to what type of engine I may have. Supposedly the firing orders are different on the VG4D and the VP4D. I believe that the VG4D uses 1-3-4-2, and that the VP4D uses 1-2-3-4, but this is only a guess. Hopefully someone can verify this so that I can purchase the proper operator and parts manual. Nothing is wrong with the engine at the moment. The primary driving force for identifying the engine is to know which manual to get. Although the engines might be similar in some respects, one person who used to work with these engines told me that there are some substantial differences between the two types. Not knowing any better, I would like to get the correct manual. Thanks for the input! Greg
 
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Kent Petersen
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

i don!t think wisc ever made a vp4d i have seen a lot VG4Ds but never vp4d
 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kent,

The VP4D definitely exists. The Wisconsin service manual for it is Issue MM-233B. But, as your statement further indicates, it seems to be a very obscure engine that there is not too much published about. Unfortunately, I am not completely certain that the VP4D is what I have, and I do not know anyone who has the above service manual to look through.

Why all this concern on my part? Well, I am one of those people that likes to have the proper service manual for everything they own. It not only can be helpful, but adds to the value of the equipment that it goes with. At this point, I need to identify what I have, so that I can get the correct manual.

Thank you for taking the time to reply!

Greg
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

There were many V4s. I used to work for a Wisconsin dealer in the 60 - 70s and still have all the old books. Just go by the bore and stroke and you won't be too far off.

Wisconsin made a straight four which I won't bother listing specs for.

Here are the flat-head fours (except one OHV model).

VE4 and VE4D are 3" bore by 3 1/4" stroke.
(same with the TE and TED two-cylinder engines).

VF4 and VF4D are 3 1/4" bore by 3 1/4" stroke.
(same with the TF and TFD two-cylinder engines).

VG4 and VG4D are 3 1/4" bore by 4" stroke.

VH4D is 3 1/4" bore by 3 1/4" stroke.

VH465 is 3 3/4" bore by 4" stroke with overhead
valves.

VP4 and VP4D is 3 1/2" bore by 4" stroke - and is what you have. 154 cubin inches.

With any of the Wisconsin engines - the "D" at the end means it has Stellite exhaust valves and seats. 23 horse at 1400 RPM, 29 horse at 1800 RPM, and 31 horse at 2200 RPM.

Firing order is 1-3-4-2

Came in crank start and/or electric.

For ignition, came with a mag or battery-powered distributor.

Note - if battery igntion - there were two different distributors:

Half-speed distributor - Auto-Lite 1AD-4036-A

Full-speed distributor - Auto-Lite 1GW-4159-A
 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

jdemaris,

Thank you for all the information. One thing still bothers me a bit. Doesn't the VG4D also have a 3-1/2" x 4" bore and stroke (instead of 3-1/4" x 4")? If it does, would you happen to know what the distributor number would be for the VG4D? If it is different than the Auto-Lite 1GW-4159-A, then hands down, there is no more question about what I have.

One last thing, if I may. Would you happen to have a list of serial numbers that may indicate what year VP4D serial number 1981956 was made? I do not know the year of the Galion, and this would be a good indicator.

Thank you very much!

Greg
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: OT - Wisconsin VP4D firing order Reply to specific post Reply with quote

VG4D only lists one distributor - it is Auto-Lite IAD-6004-2F.

I can't help much with an exact date - at least not at the moment. VM4 and VP4 (both same bore and stroke) were both made 1944 - 1953. So, your VP4D is newer, that's all I can tell you. VG4D and VP4D came out in 1954. Then in 1960, the same 3 1/2" bore by 4" stroke V4 got overhead valves and was a V461D.

I do have a partial serial # dating list somewhere - but I don't know if I can find it or not. I've got thousands of old book and they are poorly sorted.
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: I found it Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Jan 1, 1952 production started with serial # 1806854

Jan 1, 1953 production started with serial # 2033520
 
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Skyhawk Greg
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: I found it Reply to specific post Reply with quote

jdemaris,

So, a 1952 VP4D it is.

Thank you very much for the research! As I mentioned elsewhere in this post, I like to have parts and service manuals for each machine. Knowing what I have, makes it possible to do this.

Thanks again,
Greg
 
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JDemaris
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: I found it Reply to specific post Reply with quote

If you don't find one, let me know. I have half a dozen original parts-service manuals for the VP4D
- Issue MM-233C.

Price tag in the books is - $1 each from Wisconsin Motor Corportation - but I think you missed your chance to buy at that price.
 
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