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adjusting points reminder


 
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Kevin in Iowa
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

so I jumped on the 830 case this morning. It had been sitting for a couple of weeks. it started and I backed it up about 10 feet and it died. added gas and still nothing. So I had a set of plug wires and a coil so I changed them. Still nothing, the carb had been acting up last time I drove it, so I took that off and clened it up, and adjusted the float, still nothing. It looked like the plugs were dry when I removed them so I kept playing with the carb and I still cant get this thing to run. Finally I checked the spark coming out of the coil and it was a nice blue spark but at the plug it was very very weak..maybe the points?? cleaned them and also cleaned all the brass connectors inside the dist. Still nothing.. Could someone remind me on how to adj the points..its been a while.. points open??? and then set at .020 is that correct. sorry this is so long and thanks for the responses.. this is very agraviting..
also checked compression and they were all 150 psi
 
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Kevin in Iowa
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

ok so I think its carburation.... adjusted the points and got a good spark throuh the plug. But still no start. Took the carb off again and the float bowl was full of gas but the bottom of the carb also had some gas in it. Like its flooding or something?? When I put my hand over the end of the carb to block off the air intake it does kind of want to kick over and I can tell fuel is trying to burn. any suggestions? I have a carb kit on its way but the kit that is on there is not that old and everything looks good and clean..
 
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Harold Evans
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I know you said you added some gas, but did you take a close look to see if there was any water in the gas? I'd be inclined to empty the old gas and add some fresh before I tried anything else. If that helps, then take the tank off and clean it thoroughly and maybe even coat it with some sort of plastic liner. This will slow or stop any rust from returning. Rust particles in the gas can cause all of these symptoms, too.

Please let us know what finally solves your problem. I'm very curious.
 
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Kevin in Iowa
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Yea I am doing that this morning, removing the tank and cleaning, cause it needs done, but it has a clear sediment bowl on it and it it clean, does not appear to be any water in it. And there is a good solid stream of fuel coming out of the line. So I am not hopefull this will solve the problem.
 
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Kevin in Iowa
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Well drained the gas and cleaned the tank and carb again and still the same results. I am fresh out of ideas. I guess I will wait till tomorrow and put that carb kit in but I really doubt that will solve anything as the gasket and the parts look good in there. And it wont even run a little bit.
Something I did find strange is that when I hold a plug wire about 1/4 from the block I have spark. When I plug the wire into the plug and hold the electrode to the block I have spark through the plug. But when I hold the plug wire close to the spark plug tip while it's in the head there is no spark?
And with the muffler off I am seeing white smoke coming from the exhaust pipe. very frustrated.
 
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l.lAMP
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I have had a problem with NEW PLUGS getting wet with fuel and they won't fire with my DC. If it was flooding when it died that could be the problem. Put the plugs in a nice warm place or where the sun can shine up into them for a couple of hours and then reinstall. I think they ground out up inside the insulator when the engine floods. I either have to change plugs or dry them out when I flood any of my tractors. Good luck!!
 
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4435
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:37 pm    Post subject: Are you in time? Reply to specific post Reply with quote

The distributor drive may be broken.
 
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FarmerHR
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Hi Kevin,
I set my point gap by rolling the engine over until the rub block of the points is on a high point of the distributor cam. Next using the adjustment screw on the points, move it until you get the right spacing (.020 inches ). Once you get the engine running, you can set the points more accurately with a dewell meter. The dewell degrees will be in your repair manual.

If after the points are set and it still does not run, you might try setting the timing. The static procedure listed in the Case manuals is pretty good. If you do not have the manuals, give us a shout and we will look the procedure up for you. Also, while you are in the distributor with the cap off, turn the engine over a bit to make sure the cam in the distributor is moving smoothly. At this point you might also try changing the condenser. They are inexpensive and can cause problems.
Hope this helps. Please keep us informed on how you are doing.
Thanks !
 
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Kevin in Iowa
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Ok thanks for all the help... Heres the latest..after lunch today I went back out and the whole spark think was bothering me. I had a good spark to ground(head) and going through the plug but nothing when the plug was screwed into the head. So I changed back to the old coil.thinkning the one I bough was made for no external resistor, while my 830 has an external resistor. Well it started..I warmed it up,drove it around to the front of the shop, shut it off, then no start. Same results spark to ground but nothing to the pin of the plug. Went to town and got a condensor, the auto store did not have points in stock. Got back home, and without doing anything it started. Warnmed it up shut it off and no start..changed the condensor and it started, let it warm up and no start.. same results.. no fire at the plug, fire to ground but not at the plug itself. It's like when its warm it does this but afetr it sits for 5-10 minuets its fine and will staty running after its warm..Im at a loss. I will replace points in the morning and see what happends. Thanks again I will keep you posted. If anyone has any ideas as to why I lose fire at the plug I am happey to hear them.. Again I have fire from plug wire to ground..and fire through plug to ground. But when the plug is screwed in "sometimes" there is no fire from plug wire to plug.
 
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JGarner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:20 am    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Kevin, if they are Champion plugs that may be the problem. One of the guys in our antique tractor club told us over a year ago Champion was having quality problems and right soon after that I began to have a miss on #3. When I had tried a lot of other diagnostic things I switched #3 plug out with #4 and the miss moved to #4 so I knew it was plugs.

While I only had one plug completely refuse to fire when and did things like you I would guess the possibility of all 4 going bad is there. Try going to an AC equivalent plug and see if that helps (if you have Champion plugs). My AC plugs work like a champ.

Jim
 
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Kevin in Iowa
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

They are "Champion's" I will switch and give it a try, I am getting new ones anyway, but the weird thing is that I will have spk through the plug but only no spark when its screwed in the head. Makes no since to me. Heading to town this morning to get points.
How is this for a theory...We have had a tone of rain here lately what if there is some moisture under the dust cover near the points and as the engine heats up it makes condensation then wont make enough spark to fire the electrode in the plug, then as it cools back down it dries out and then runs?????
 
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JGarner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

I understand the wierd thing. When I would pull the wire off and let the spark jump the plug would fire and tractor run with no miss. When the wire was properly placed it would not fire on that cylinder. New coil and wires too. The plugs looked to be very new when I got the tractor. No obvious wear and gapped correctly.

Replaced with AC plugs and it runs prerfectly, beats me. I always bought Champions for over 40 years, but no more after this experience.

Four new plugs much cheaper than some other things to try too.

Jim
 
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Joe (Wa)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Disconnecting & holding the wire close to the plug introduces additional resistance that delays coil discharge and increases the voltage.

That is the same thing that auxiliary gap plugs accomplish. Auxiliary gap plugs have a gap in the electrode passing through the porcelain.

They use to be common in the old days. Manufacturers have different names for them. Champion's "one tug plug" for small engines is an example. Next time in a store that sells them, check the picture on the back of package.

Joe
 
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FarmerHR
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: adjusting points reminder Reply to specific post Reply with quote

Thanks for keeping us up dated.

If the new points and plugs do not cure the problem, you might try cleaning up the connection points for the wire that goes from the coil to the distributor. It might be worth replacing this wire. Since the same problem exists with both coils, the suspect connection would be the one in the distributor.

When you are in the no spark to plug situation, have you tried pulling the wires off all the plugs to see if they all act the same ?

Hope this helps. Keep us informed. Thanks !
 
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