1948 8N steering

[DN-N-TN]

I took in a 1951 8N on trade that had been sitting for a long time. Someone had installed a new aftermarket steering box, but never finished the job. Then left it sitting outside with the steering wheel off, and the gear was empty of oil, but for a little grease used for assembly. Water filled the box and rusted everything up. A friend had a box off of a 1948 8N, so, I put it on the tractor. I put new side bushings and seals, and the worm did not have excessive play (up and down), and felt smooth. The wasn't fun to drive at all, even after installing new spindle bushings and thrust bearings. I finally ended up glass blasting all the rusted parts of the aftermarket gear, installed new balls in the spool and other bearing in the gear. Now it drives great and steers easily. I was wondering if all the 1948 original gears are harder to steer than the later models 8N. Tim Daley (I believe) has a nice 1948, and I just wondered if he has the original gear or the later model gear on his, and how does it steer? I did change all the parts needed to make the swap. Dennis

 

[Dan]

Ford changed the steering box design after two years for a reason. I am guessing that you figured out why. I have completely rebuilt my 1948 steering box and the best I could get is 1/4 turn of the steering wheel before movement of the steering sectors. I live with it.

The later models had a redesigned dash as the larer model steering box was shaped different, not sure how well it would work putting a early model steering box on a later model tractor. I would assume the steering drag links would need to be modified or adjusted quite a bit for the change as well. Measure the distance from the inside of the left tire to the inside of the right, then take the same measurement on the back of the tires. As long as you have about 1/2" less distance on the front from the distance between the back pointing straight ahead you should be fine I would think.

 

[DN-N-TN]

Ford changed the steering box design after two years for a reason. I am guessing that you figured out why. I have completely rebuilt my 1948 steering box and the best I could get is 1/4 turn of the steering wheel before movement of the steering sectors. I live with it.

The later models had a redesigned dash as the larer model steering box was shaped different, not sure how well it would work putting a early model steering box on a later model tractor. I would assume the steering drag links would need to be modified or adjusted quite a bit for the change as well. Measure the distance from the inside of the left tire to the inside of the right, then take the same measurement on the back of the tires. As long as you have about 1/2" less distance on the front from the distance between the back pointing straight ahead you should be fine I would think.

I was able to get all the parts from the 48' to make it work, then change it all back when I went back with the later type. I didn't like the fact that the gears in the box were supported on one end, and that makes if difficult to remove all the play, On the other hand, the later model is supported on both ends of the gear shafts to make it more stable. I've got a bush hog on the 51', and with the the newer type gear, it really feels good, almost like power steering. I set the toe end at 1/4" on mine. I'm using the 48' dash, so, trimmed the lower left corner slightly so the pitman arm on the left would clear it, and drill a 1 1/4" hole in the dash support to get access to the fill plug on the aftermarket gear.

 

[Dan]

I was able to get all the parts from the 48' to make it work, then change it all back when I went back with the later type. I didn't like the fact that the gears in the box were supported on one end, and that makes if difficult to remove all the play, On the other hand, the later model is supported on both ends of the gear shafts to make it more stable. I've got a bush hog on the 51', and with the the newer type gear, it really feels good, almost like power steering. I set the toe end at 1/4" on mine. I'm using the 48' dash, so, trimmed the lower left corner slightly so the pitman arm on the left would clear it, and drill a 1 1/4" hole in the dash support to get access to the fill plug on the aftermarket gear.

Yeah, I had a '52 model for a few years as a mower and I agree - that steering almost felt like power steering. Sounds like you have a solid grasp of how the steering works and how to work on them. The only thing I might be able to add is to fill the box with a flowable grease like John Deere cornhead grease to make it a bit smoother.

Good luck

 

[DN-N-TN]

Yeah, I had a '52 model for a few years as a mower and I agree - that steering almost felt like power steering. Sounds like you have a solid grasp of how the steering works and how to work on them. The only thing I might be able to add is to fill the box with a flowable grease like John Deere cornhead grease to make it a bit smoother.

Good luck

Good advise on the grease, and that's what I did. I have a 1941 9N, 1951 8N, 1953 NAA, 1958 641 Workmaster, and I have grease in all of them.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I took in a 1951 8N on trade that had been sitting for a long time. Someone had installed a new aftermarket steering box, but never finished the job. Then left it sitting outside with the steering wheel off, and the gear was empty of oil, but for a little grease used for assembly. Water filled the box and rusted everything up. A friend had a box off of a 1948 8N, so, I put it on the tractor. I put new side bushings and seals, and the worm did not have excessive play (up and down), and felt smooth. The wasn't fun to drive at all, even after installing new spindle bushings and thrust bearings. I finally ended up glass blasting all the rusted parts of the aftermarket gear, installed new balls in the spool and other bearing in the gear. Now it drives great and steers easily. I was wondering if all the 1948 original gears are harder to steer than the later models 8N. Tim Daley (I believe) has a nice 1948, and I just wondered if he has the original gear or the later model gear on his, and how does it steer? I did change all the parts needed to make the swap. Dennis

HiYa DN- Welcome aboard the YT N-Board. Thanks for the mention. My 8N is an early model built in late 1947, Engine Casting ID Date Code TAG of SEP 1947. That means the engine was assembled and passed QC Inspection on OCT 14, 1947 -the day Chuck Yeager broke the sound barrier. I never heard of an 'aftermarket' N steering box, never saw one, never was one. If you mean you swapped old box for rebuilt/used one, OK. There were TWO Steering Boxes made for the 8N. Early 8N used the Saginaw Steering Gear Reciprocating Ball unit from '48-'50. After 1950 system was revamped to a better designed unit. The early boxes are a PITA to work on. If replacing encourage to find a used late boix to replace old with. Your call.

Your Mileage May Vary,
Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I took in a 1951 8N on trade that had been sitting for a long time. Someone had installed a new aftermarket steering box, but never finished the job. Then left it sitting outside with the steering wheel off, and the gear was empty of oil, but for a little grease used for assembly. Water filled the box and rusted everything up. A friend had a box off of a 1948 8N, so, I put it on the tractor. I put new side bushings and seals, and the worm did not have excessive play (up and down), and felt smooth. The wasn't fun to drive at all, even after installing new spindle bushings and thrust bearings. I finally ended up glass blasting all the rusted parts of the aftermarket gear, installed new balls in the spool and other bearing in the gear. Now it drives great and steers easily. I was wondering if all the 1948 original gears are harder to steer than the later models 8N. Tim Daley (I believe) has a nice 1948, and I just wondered if he has the original gear or the later model gear on his, and how does it steer? I did change all the parts needed to make the swap. Dennis

REF my post below with parts views. Note early and late boxes and differences. Arms are the give away. A big root cause of steering box failure isPM. Lube by altering early with a Pipe Plug & Zerk and late with a 7/16 Hex Boll & Zerk config. Corn head grease or 00 Grease works well - no hyd oil.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[DN-N-TN]

Good morning Tim. The aftermarket steering gear that I was referring to was just like the ones sold on this site. They are manufactured in the " Land of almost right" or the land of "Might be right" that starts wit "I". they look almost the same, but the filler plug is located at a different place, and about all the internal parts are close in appearance to OEM, but will not interchange. I needed the upper and lower bearing cups, so, I called YT parts and they said they had no listing nor did they sell them. I finally took two 2" OD, 1" ID sealed roller bearings and machined some bushings to fit the worm gear shaft and made them work. I ordered some 9/32" 440 stainless steel balls to rebuild the worm/block assembly and it works perfectly. YT stocks and sells most of the parts for the aftermarket gear, but not all. Thanks, for the come back, Dennis

REF my post below with parts views. Note early and late boxes and differences. Arms are the give away. A big root cause of steering box failure isPM. Lube by altering early with a Pipe Plug & Zerk and late with a 7/16 Hex Boll & Zerk config. Corn head grease or 00 Grease works well - no hyd oil.

Tim Daley (MI)

The aftermarket gears (like the ones sold by YT) have the filler plug located here. I put a zerk where the plug goes, and also packed it full of grease when I put it back together.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Good morning Tim. The aftermarket steering gear that I was referring to was just like the ones sold on this site. They are manufactured in the " Land of almost right" or the land of "Might be right" that starts wit "I". they look almost the same, but the filler plug is located at a different place, and about all the internal parts are close in appearance to OEM, but will not interchange. I needed the upper and lower bearing cups, so, I called YT parts and they said they had no listing nor did they sell them. I finally took two 2" OD, 1" ID sealed roller bearings and machined some bushings to fit the worm gear shaft and made them work. I ordered some 9/32" 440 stainless steel balls to rebuild the worm/block assembly and it works perfectly. YT stocks and sells most of the parts for the aftermarket gear, but not all. Thanks, for the come back, DennisView attachment 63474View attachment 63475View attachment 63478

The aftermarket gears (like the ones sold by YT) have the filler plug located here. I put a zerk where the plug goes, and also packed it full of grease when I put it back together.View attachment 63498

OK, I was thinking you met an entire aftermarket steering box which were never made.

Tim

 

[105kastbrg]

Good morning Tim. The aftermarket steering gear that I was referring to was just like the ones sold on this site. They are manufactured in the " Land of almost right" or the land of "Might be right" that starts wit "I". they look almost the same, but the filler plug is located at a different place, and about all the internal parts are close in appearance to OEM, but will not interchange. I needed the upper and lower bearing cups, so, I called YT parts and they said they had no listing nor did they sell them. I finally took two 2" OD, 1" ID sealed roller bearings and machined some bushings to fit the worm gear shaft and made them work. I ordered some 9/32" 440 stainless steel balls to rebuild the worm/block assembly and it works perfectly. YT stocks and sells most of the parts for the aftermarket gear, but not all. Thanks, for the come back, DennisView attachment 63474View attachment 63475View attachment 63478

The aftermarket gears (like the ones sold by YT) have the filler plug located here. I put a zerk where the plug goes, and also packed it full of grease when I put it back together.View attachment 63498

whats the best course of action with a late model and no tapped hole?

 

[DN-N-TN]

whats the best course of action with a late model and no tapped hole?

Take a close look at the photos Tim Daley posted, and you will see the bolt with the zerk sticking out from the bolt head. You can install one of these in either side sector (with adjuster) cover or you could install one one both sides, then, you could add grease to the gear box.

 

[JJay48]

Now you guys have me wondering if I should look for a post 1950 steering box for my 48. I can tell it had been leaking for awhile and was watching a video where a guy rebuilt one yesterday. He put oil back in it because he said thats how the factory did it and was worried grease might not get the appropriate areas for lubrication. He also filled it above the factory fill plug.

 

[HCooke]

I put 00 grease in my '48. Stopped the leak.

 

[Dan]

I put 00 grease in my 48 when I rebuiltthe steering box, as well as TWO oil seals on each side as the new ones are much thinner, and I still have grease oozing out of the side arms. Sometimes it is not the fix all unfortunately