4610 Gauge Cluster Question

[gary-ca]

I have a 1984 4610 with original gauge cluster. When running, the fuel gauge flickers and when I turn the key to off, the battery light does not glow as it should, I checked and cleaned all wires and terminals on back of cluster grounded the sender and got full gauge travel but when running it still flickers between half and full.
I don't see a voltage stabilizer on the back like some I am familiar with. Do you think I have a bad gauge and a charging system problem? or are they somehow connected? Thank You for ideas, Gary

 

[Sean in PA]

I'm not familiar with those xx10 series models, but I don't think that the charge (battery) light should glow when the key is in the off position. That would drain the battery over time. The charge light should only glow when the key is in the run, start or accessory positions while the engine is not running and the battery is not being charged properly.

Also, I'm not sure what you man by the fuel gauge "flickering". Do you mean that the needle is bouncing? Or is it some sort of digital readout? If the needle is bouncing between half and full, I would suspect a bad sender, or possibly a bad wire going to the sender. How much fuel is in the tank when it is doing this?

 

[gary-ca]

Thanks for the reply. With the tractor running and the key in off position the light should glow, (I am pretty sure) I have a 4600 with the same setup. the 4610 used to respond the same way. I think it is a warning that maybe you accidently hit the key to the off position with your knee. The light comes on but not very bright. With the key on start or run position in preparation to start and the engine off 3 lights glow, battery, air and oil.
Yes, the needle bounces, the fuel level is over 3/4 full. I grounded the wire from the sender and still got the bounce. I also shined up the grounding tab going from a sender mounting screw to the sender.
I just (this afternoon) replaced the starter (key) switch and it seemed to help reduce the bouncing slightly, but it is still not acting like it did a year ago. Thanks for your ideas.

 

[sotxbill]

On the fuel gauge... bouncing... could be float is bouncing up and down as the fuel slouches around.. Yes its not suppose to, but I have seen it before... OR... the sending unit has corrosion on the winding/pickup arm,,,, that goes from reading 100 ohms to a open or reading over one million ohms.... then back to reading again say 100 ohms again... as the fuel slouches around. The HUGE change is more likely making the fuel gauge bounce.... So replacing the sending unit, in the tank, may or may not help. Also some have reported running bg 44 or bg245 on a full tank, will in some cases clean the sending unit. pick the correct bg product for gas vs diesel. AS to... turning the key off while the engine is still running.. and the alt light not coming on... Thats what the generator 4000 did as the generator was still energized due to the residual magnetism. BUT...When you turn the key off on the 4600 with alternator, the VR immediately cuts off the field terminal, SO... there is NO charge coming back to light up the light,,iirc. And of course when the engine is NOT running and the key is off, there is NO light. Anyway, my 2.5 cents due to inflation.

 

[gary-ca]

Thank You, you cleared up some mis information I had. I will lower the fuel in the tank and see if there is any change in the bounce. I will look into the BG product for diesel. I can always try a new sender too. When I turn off the key and the engine is running, it does still charge the battery, Thanks again for the ideas.

 

[RodinNS]

On any of those tractors I've seen, when you turn the key off with the engine running, the charge indicator light will illuminate,
dimly. If it doesn't, that speaks to the charge rate of the alternator, or possibly the ground path for the alternator.
The problems you describe generally seem like a bad ground somewhere. I think I'd look at the harness ground points and check them
and the wiring for breaks and weak spots. Probably where it bends around something you have a wire that's just about broken
internally. IIRC, that should ground on the front of the fuel tank.
The fuel sender issue could very well be a bad sender... but could also be related to a ground issue.

Rod

 

[gary-ca]

Hi Rod,
Yes, that is what I am familiar with, the dim light glowing with engine running and key off. I think you may be on the right track with the grounding. I will do some tests; one test will be to run a dedicated wire from a good ground to the cluster ground spade. I will try other ways to bypass existing wires to see if I have a broken or corroded wire somewhere. Thanks for the idea.
Gary

 

[Sean in PA]

Sorry for any confusion (on my part). You never said in your original post "engine running and key off", you just said "key off".

 

[gary-ca]

Sean, I knew what I meant. Ha Ha , yes, Rod used the correct terminology. Today I Tried a new oil pressure sender and hooked up an aftermarket gauge cluster. The new cluster fuel gauge was smoother than the original, the light still will not glow dim when engine running and key off. I checked volts at battery and it went to 13.8-14 so charging system is ok, Traced wires as best as I could from senders to cluster and all seem ok, When I started working on it i replaced the key switch and was sure to put wires back as they were removed. Wondering if the original key switch was wired incorrectly? I will get it figured out someday!

 

[gary-ca]

Got it figured out. It was the alternator. It was charging the battery just fine but the power to the instrument cluster comes from the spade connector on the alternator. I think! I put on a new alternator and with engine running and key off the alt light comes on dim. The fuel gauge also calmed down with just a small amount of bouncing. Thanks for everyone's ideas. Gary