9700 - Loose 3-Point Pin on Right Side - Help!

[dalehays]

I've inherited this tractor from my family and it has a big hydraulic leak on the 3-point hitch pin on the right-side trumpet. It is quite loose and as a result it leaks all the fluid out of it in a matter of a few weeks. Is it possible to just pull the right-side trumpet, or do I need to start with the left - then do the right? Also, have you guys seen issues with the trumpet needing to be replaced . . . or just the pin . . . or both? If the pin-bore is damaged, have folks machined the trumpet for what I'll call a "pin sleeve" - or maybe an oversize pin? I'd hate to have to replace the whole trumpet. Any experienced advice is greatly appreciated. I really want to get this tractor back in 100% operational shape - as the engine runs really well and I hate seeing it leaking as it is.

Thanks!

 

[shaun wallace]

Pulling trumpet will do no good! There is some orings that are worn on the arm. Pretty common.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

Looks like you are describing a leak at the torsion bar where your 3point arms attach to it. If so then, your leak is at the o ring seals which the bar has on each side. I seal on the left and one seal on the right. There is also a bushing on each side. If the tractor has pulled heavy tillage implements such as field cultivators, mold board breaking plows or others during years on the farm then, its very possible that these bushings and the torsion bar itself will have quite a bit of wear. That usually leads to the leak you are describing. The loose motion you describe is the knuckle that is on the end of the shaft that the lift arm is pinned on. The splines will be worn there. It is a major undertaking to do the correct repair here. I would advise a repair manual be in hand and studied well before starting this repair. This problem was very common on the large Ford tractors with the load sensing torsion bars. Check the bushings on each side and replace as needed. I have seen the bars with a lot of wear at the spots where the bushings ride on them also. Machine work will be needed if severe wear is present there. Leaking oil on one side is usually the first sign of trouble there.

 

[dalehays]

I guess I should have looked at the picture I took first - as obviously the area that the hitch arm mounts too is not on the trumpet. Sorry about that. See the attached picture and annotations. The piece that I've outlined is the part that is "loose" - and the fluid drains into the bucket from the underside of it. What causes this and what is the "fix" that I need to apply. The bolt in the center is not loose, those whole casting piece is loose and moves around. Thanks gang!

 

[dalehays]

Looks like you are describing a leak at the torsion bar where your 3point arms attach to it. If so then, your leak is at the o ring seals which the bar has on each side. I seal on the left and one seal on the right. There is also a bushing on each side. If the tractor has pulled heavy tillage implements such as field cultivators, mold board breaking plows or others during years on the farm then, its very possible that these bushings and the torsion bar itself will have quite a bit of wear. That usually leads to the leak you are describing. The loose motion you describe is the knuckle that is on the end of the shaft that the lift arm is pinned on. The splines will be worn there. It is a major undertaking to do the correct repair here. I would advise a repair manual be in hand and studied well before starting this repair. This problem was very common on the large Ford tractors with the load sensing torsion bars. Check the bushings on each side and replace as needed. I have seen the bars with a lot of wear at the spots where the bushings ride on them also. Machine work will be needed if severe wear is present there. Leaking oil on one side is usually the first sign of trouble there.

I am away from the location at the moment - not sure if we have a repair manual or not. I saw quite a bit of play on the "knuckle" - which tells me that at a minimum the bushing is gone . . . though when that happens one can assume that the bar the bushing rides on is severely worn. Can that bar be replaced without taking the whole back of the tractor apart? (might need to be welded up, re-splined or a new one).

I've worked on a LOT of mechanical equipment in my time - though usually related to BobCats and equipment implements (smaller stuff) . . . not the back end of a big ole "dually" tractor.

Assuming I have or buy a repair manual - how would you classify the size of this job? What are the big steps required to do this? It sounds like you've been here before! LOL

Would like to have some idea as to if I am willing to take it on or not.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

That is splined onto the tube that goes all the way through the lower housing on the tractor. Your leak is at the o ring around that tube. Pull up the Messicks Parts page on the web. Go to the New Holland Ag tractor parts page and scoll down to the 9700 section. Then go to hydraulics section and look for the torsion bar part. The picture of all the related parts there will show you what you need to know.

 

[dalehays]

Given that the k

That is splined onto the tube that goes all the way through the lower housing on the tractor. Your leak is at the o ring around that tube. Pull up the Messicks Parts page on the web. Go to the New Holland Ag tractor parts page and scoll down to the 9700 section. Then go to hydraulics section and look for the torsion bar part. The picture of all the related parts there will show you what you need to know.

Given that the knuckle is loose, it has to be more than a leaking O-ring. My guess is that the shaft/splines and associated knuckle bushing are worn. I'll go and see what I can find! Thanks!

 

[dalehays]

I saw the parts diagram - tried to see if anybody had the right-side link "hook" . . . seems it is no longer available and I haven't found a used source as of yet. I'll do some more searches.

Question: Can the inner torsion bar and the splined components on BOTH ends be removed - such that the torsion bar and any associated bushings can be replaced? My guess is that I'll need a new torsion bar and right side hook - along with bushings, seals, etc.. Hopefully somebody on this site has done this job before.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[shaun wallace]

The lift cover has to be removed. If open station not too bad. Remove deck, fenders , fuel tank. If cab it gets too be a whole bunch more. I have just replaced orings on right side on some. Its been 30 years , so I imagine the splines are worn worse now than then.

 

[dalehays]

Yeah, this one has a full CAB . . . so it sounds like there is a lot of work involved. Arggggggggh!

 

[Bern]

Yeah, this one has a full CAB . . . so it sounds like there is a lot of work involved. Arggggggggh!

I have heard of someone stretching a new o-ring over the LH hanger. I haven't tried it myself, I just heard it can be done. Worth a try, worst thing you could do is break a $2 o-ring.

 

[Bern]

I guess I should have looked at the picture I took first - as obviously the area that the hitch arm mounts too is not on the trumpet. Sorry about that. See the attached picture and annotations. The piece that I've outlined is the part that is "loose" - and the fluid drains into the bucket from the underside of it. What causes this and what is the "fix" that I need to apply. The bolt in the center is not loose, those whole casting piece is loose and moves around. Thanks gang!

This is a known weak spot and a bad design. Later tractors used a hanger with pinch bolts.

 

[Bern]

Given that the k

Given that the knuckle is loose, it has to be more than a leaking O-ring. My guess is that the shaft/splines and associated knuckle bushing are worn. I'll go and see what I can find! Thanks!

Bushings and shaft I'm sure are fine. That shaft doesn't move enough to ever wear those pieces out.

 

[dalehays]

This is a known weak spot and a bad design. Later tractors used a hanger with pinch bolts.

Any idea if the later hook part is interchangeable with the older 9700 part? Anything that gives a tighter fitment on the splines would seem to be a good idea.

In my case, my guess is that both the torsion bar and the hook will need replacement - so I'll be buying parts one way or another.

Anybody done a "conversion" to a later design?

 

[dalehays]

Bushings and shaft I'm sure are fine. That shaft doesn't move enough to ever wear those pieces out.

What I'm worried about is the condition of the splines on the end . . . as with all that wobbling around, they have to have a lot of wear on them (at least in my silly little mind!).

 

[shaun wallace]

The 8000/9000 . 8600/9600 use same setup. I may have tried what Bern said about stretching oring over left side.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

I am away from the location at the moment - not sure if we have a repair manual or not. I saw quite a bit of play on the "knuckle" - which tells me that at a minimum the bushing is gone . . . though when that happens one can assume that the bar the bushing rides on is severely worn. Can that bar be replaced without taking the whole back of the tractor apart? (might need to be welded up, re-splined or a new one).

I've worked on a LOT of mechanical equipment in my time - though usually related to BobCats and equipment implements (smaller stuff) . . . not the back end of a big ole "dually" tractor.

Assuming I have or buy a repair manual - how would you classify the size of this job? What are the big steps required to do this? It sounds like you've been here before! LOL

Would like to have some idea as to if I am willing to take it on or not.

Yes i have been there before although its been a good while since i have tackled one of those. Everything comes out on the left side standing behind the tractor. I do remember the first one i ever repaired was on a 9600 cab tractor. The splines were worn very bad on the tube and the knuckle was very loose just like yours. I had a friend who owned a machine shop rebuild the splines on the tube and got it back in great condition. I believe we were able to purchase a new knuckle at that time. This was in the late 1970s. My friend passed many years ago but, he sure knew his trade when it came to machine work. You will need some good hoist tools to handle the cab and lift cover. It is not really very complicated but, heavy work. Be sure to check the wear on the shaft and bushing's very closely. You might be able to get by just replacing o rings but, that is doubtful. You will also need to drain all the oil in rear housing. Parts that are no longer available make things tough. Not many if any of these old machines left here in my neck of the woods anymore.

 

[Old Ford Mechanic]

That stretching o ring deal may work on the left side as i have heard that also. I worked for a dealer when i did this work and they always wanted you to go by the book on that repair so i never got to try that. I never had one of those to do after i left the dealer shop.

 

[Bern]

Any idea if the later hook part is interchangeable with the older 9700 part? Anything that gives a tighter fitment on the splines would seem to be a good idea.

In my case, my guess is that both the torsion bar and the hook will need replacement - so I'll be buying parts one way or another.

Anybody done a "conversion" to a later design?

Parts book shows that the later design shaft has a different part number, so I'm going to suggest not betting on the later hanger fitting your tractor.

 

[dalehays]

Yes i have been there before although its been a good while since i have tackled one of those. Everything comes out on the left side standing behind the tractor. I do remember the first one i ever repaired was on a 9600 cab tractor. The splines were worn very bad on the tube and the knuckle was very loose just like yours. I had a friend who owned a machine shop rebuild the splines on the tube and got it back in great condition. I believe we were able to purchase a new knuckle at that time. This was in the late 1970s. My friend passed many years ago but, he sure knew his trade when it came to machine work. You will need some good hoist tools to handle the cab and lift cover. It is not really very complicated but, heavy work. Be sure to check the wear on the shaft and bushing's very closely. You might be able to get by just replacing o rings but, that is doubtful. You will also need to drain all the oil in rear housing. Parts that are no longer available make things tough. Not many if any of these old machines left here in my neck of the woods anymore.

The parts diagram shows the tube (with splines) - that the torsion bar runs inside of. The tube has splines on it as well - with an arm attached - that has a part number of

81819840 ARM​

Did you see damage to the tube splines and arm or the torsion bar splines or both? I'm going to be searching for parts - before I tear it down as parts seem to be quite hard to find!

I'll get a repair manual before I dig into it . . . right now I'm on the "parts quest".