Allis Chalmers oil filter

[4wdtom]

The post about oil filters reminded me that I just bought a filter from NAPA for my AC B. Cost was $38, seems high to me. I would have shopped around and possibly ordered on line but I wanted it without the shipping delay to do an oil change right away. Also the oil pressure seems OK so I am assuming NAPA has changed the filter from a few years back when they had a problem with being too free flowing and it reduced the oil pressure. The inside looks like the AGCO filter I removed or I wouldn't have bought it.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Well I was pretty stunned at the price of that filter, so I called around for laughs and that price is indeed in the ballpark; although I think you may be paying 10$ for the NAPA name.
Regarding your oil pressure, that is a bypass system that is regulated by an orifice in the filter base assembly. You could have an empty can on there and it would not affect the oil pressure….the can is simply stuffed full of cotton. If you have an oil pressure problem, the culprit lies elsewhere.

 

[wore out]

Well I was pretty stunned at the price of that filter, so I called around for laughs and that price is indeed in the ballpark; although I think you may be paying 10$ for the NAPA name.
Regarding your oil pressure, that is a bypass system that is regulated by an orifice in the filter base assembly. You could have an empty can on there and it would not affect the oil pressure….the can is simply stuffed full of cotton. If you have an oil pressure problem, the culprit lies elsewhere.

"that is a bypass system that is regulated by an orifice in the filter base assembly"

I agree with you 100%.

There's sure a lot of folks on here that claim their experience has been different.

 

[JOCCO]

Napa filter are generally wix the first number is different as a rule.

 

[Jim.ME]

The post about oil filters reminded me that I just bought a filter from NAPA for my AC B. Cost was $38, seems high to me. I would have shopped around and possibly ordered on line but I wanted it without the shipping delay to do an oil change right away. Also the oil pressure seems OK so I am assuming NAPA has changed the filter from a few years back when they had a problem with being too free flowing and it reduced the oil pressure. The inside looks like the AGCO filter I removed or I wouldn't have bought it.

The WIX/NAPA filter issue is old, like back around 2010, I think. WIX issued a new filter number when they corrected the problem. The current/correct filter number is WIX 57011 or NAPA 7011. The old WIX number was 51101 (NAPA 1101). The original 51101 used a packed media for filtering. Wix changed it to pleated paper and there was a significant oil pressure drop noted in the ACs that used that filter, enough that the complaints lead to WIX discontinuing the 51101 and replacing it with the 57011 having a redesigned filter media appears to be a type of material filling the housing liked the packed media did, which gave more backpressure, along with the regulating tube orifice, to increase oil pressures seen.

This oil pressure drop occurred even with the proper oil flow regulating tube in place in the filter housing. I saw this happen firsthand on my ACs, so the tube alone is not the entire story on keeping the oil pressure up, the oil pressure ran lower with the pleated paper media used in those redesigned WIX 51101 filters, all of which had the tube in place. And it will run even lower if the regulating tube is not in place, regardless of the filter media, I have seen that scenario firsthand as well.
.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Strange how a paper filter will work on any other by-pass system but not on Allis - Chalmers

 

[Jim.ME]

Strange how a paper filter will work on any other by-pass system but not on Allis - Chalmers

I understand your point, however I know what I saw on my own tractors. If there is not some credibility to this, why would WIX discontinue the 51101 a short time after they redesigned it, and replace it with a new numbered filter with a media more like the original filtering media?

It appears it happened further back than I thought. Here is more on the discontinued WIX 51101 and lower oil pressure on ACs.

RodNH oil filter investigation

 

[HFJ]

interesting stuff. any oddities i should know about the filter for my WD?

 

[Jim.ME]

interesting stuff. any oddities i should know about the filter for my WD?

Nothing I know of. The questionable WIX 51101 and NAPA 1101 filters should be long gone. Since they were introduced I have used the WIX 57011 (NAPA 7011 is the same filter) and the Baldwin T300-M at times. Many use the Fram C159.

Make sure you keep the tube in the housing that the filter slides down over, it is the first step of flow regulation through the filter. They have been known to stick in the filter media and pull out of the housing during a filter change. Some have not notice when that happens and threw the filter away with the tube still in it. That will cause low oil pressure readings, if it happens.

 

[Aaron SEIA]

Well I was pretty stunned at the price of that filter, so I called around for laughs and that price is indeed in the ballpark; although I think you may be paying 10$ for the NAPA name.
Regarding your oil pressure, that is a bypass system that is regulated by an orifice in the filter base assembly. You could have an empty can on there and it would not affect the oil pressure….the can is simply stuffed full of cotton. If you have an oil pressure problem, the culprit lies elsewhere.

Not entirely true. The standpipe in the filter base has 2 small holes in it that help regulate the pressure. BUT...20 or so years ago the filter makers thought they could design those with paper media. Turns out that was a terrible idea as oil pressures dropped horribly and more than one guy lost an engine over it. The media itself does help build pressure.
AaronSEIA

 

[Aaron SEIA]

Strange how a paper filter will work on any other by-pass system but not on Allis - Chalmers

Are others full pressure lube? You can run a bypass filter on any system, but unless it's full pressure lube, the filter media matters.
AaronSEIA

 

[4wdtom]

The WIX/NAPA filter issue is old, like back around 2010, I think. WIX issued a new filter number when they corrected the problem. The current/correct filter number is WIX 57011 or NAPA 7011. The old WIX number was 51101 (NAPA 1101). The original 51101 used a packed media for filtering. Wix changed it to pleated paper and there was a significant oil pressure drop noted in the ACs that used that filter, enough that the complaints lead to WIX discontinuing the 51101 and replacing it with the 57011 having a redesigned filter media appears to be a type of material filling the housing liked the packed media did, which gave more backpressure, along with the regulating tube orifice, to increase oil pressures seen.

This oil pressure drop occurred even with the proper oil flow regulating tube in place in the filter housing. I saw this happen firsthand on my ACs, so the tube alone is not the entire story on keeping the oil pressure up, the oil pressure ran lower with the pleated paper media used in those redesigned WIX 51101 filters, all of which had the tube in place. And it will run even lower if the regulating tube is not in place, regardless of the filter media, I have seen that scenario firsthand as well.
.

Thank you Jim for explaining the filter and number change, I thought the no. was different on the new filter, similar but different from the NAPA filters from many years ago. In the future I think I will plan ahead and price filters, have a couple on hand to avoid $38 if possible. Tom

 

[Bob Bancroft]

The post about oil filters reminded me that I just bought a filter from NAPA for my AC B. Cost was $38, seems high to me. I would have shopped around and possibly ordered on line but I wanted it without the shipping delay to do an oil change right away. Also the oil pressure seems OK so I am assuming NAPA has changed the filter from a few years back when they had a problem with being too free flowing and it reduced the oil pressure. The inside looks like the AGCO filter I removed or I wouldn't have bought it.

For many years the handy local auto supply had Wix, and of course NAPA had the same line. I used both. I started finding out a couple of years ago that I could get better prices elsewhere, namely John Deere and Fleetguard. It appears that NAPA may be pricing themselves right out of the market.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Are others full pressure lube? You can run a bypass filter on any system, but unless it's full pressure lube, the filter media matters.
AaronSEIA

Lettered Farmalls’39-up are by-pass… the Super C, for example,( pleated paper element ) original decal on the oil filter can gave two different part numbers for the filters… one for 120 hrs. and one for 240 hours.
Seems a silly idea to me to use a medium whose resistance is constantly changing according to the level of dirt in the oil to control oil pressure.
The argument for higher resistance makes even less sense when you consider that, if the resistance is too high, whether because of dirt or a particular media, the oil will bypass the filter entirely once it becomes saturated because of the parallel plumbing.
Lost an engine because he changed an oil filter? I would like to hear the rest of THAT story. Whoever you’re talking about probably didn’t have any oil pressure to begin with, or had a rod hammering for a week before he decided to change the oil.

 

[Jim.ME]

Lettered Farmalls’39-up are by-pass… the Super C, for example,( pleated paper element ) original decal on the oil filter can gave two different part numbers for the filters… one for 120 hrs. and one for 240 hours.
Seems a silly idea to me to use a medium whose resistance is constantly changing according to the level of dirt in the oil to control oil pressure.
The argument for higher resistance makes even less sense when you consider that, if the resistance is too high, whether because of dirt or a particular media, the oil will bypass the filter entirely once it becomes saturated because of the parallel plumbing.
Lost an engine because he changed an oil filter? I would like to hear the rest of THAT story. Whoever you’re talking about probably didn’t have any oil pressure to begin with, or had a rod hammering for a week before he decided to change the oil.

The difference might be in how the bypass oil is filtered. The ACs meter the incoming (pressurized) oil with a large open return to the base. The Farmall system (and others) metered (restricted) the oil leaving the filter, I believe. Such a system would see little difference based on the filter media compared to an engine having the unmetered oil return to the base, like the ACs.

Believe as you choose. I am guessing you didn't have an AC at the time to have experienced this firsthand. I know I saw a pressure drop when I put the redesigned 51101 filters on two of my ACs, and the pressure came back up when I removed those, due to the drop I saw, and installed Fram C159s which were available in my area. There was a good bit of discussion about this, at the time, on the Unofficial Allis website and some did report engine damage from the pressure drop. Yes, their oil pressure may have been weak to being with, however the damage came with the filter change and resulting pressure drop. For a long time those filters had a bad name on that website, and it took a while before the new 57011 filters were accepted. Some still will not use them.

 

[bob p mn]

We had the low oil pressure problem too, my son was in VoTech and majored a WD the school was 150 miles away from home so just hauled the engine to the school and installed at home. I don't remember for sure if was a Wix or Napa but we couldn't get the oil pressure much above the safe operating mark, turned in the regulator as much as we could still didn't come up much. Then I was at the late Scott Cervanka's one day picking up some parts and we were BS'ing and out of the blue he says you know about the Napa oil filters don't you. Scott was our area Allis guru, we installed a Fram started it up and pegged the gauge. then reset the regulator and all was good.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

The difference might be in how the bypass oil is filtered. The ACs meter the incoming (pressurized) oil with a large open return to the base. The Farmall system (and others) metered (restricted) the oil leaving the filter, I believe. Such a system would see little difference based on the filter media compared to an engine having the unmetered oil return to the base, like the ACs.

Believe as you choose. I am guessing you didn't have an AC at the time to have experienced this firsthand. I know I saw a pressure drop when I put the redesigned 51101 filters on two of my ACs, and the pressure came back up when I removed those, due to the drop I saw, and installed Fram C159s which were available in my area. There was a good bit of discussion about this, at the time, on the Unofficial Allis website and some did report engine damage from the pressure drop. Yes, their oil pressure may have been weak to being with, however the damage came with the filter change and resulting pressure drop. For a long time those filters had a bad name on that website, and it took a while before the new 57011 filters were accepted. Some still will not use them.

Metering for the farmall is in the bolt attached to the filter housing if I remember right without going to get the picture from a couple months ago for that fellow with the oil passage question. So that would put the filter after the main restriction hence no visible problem and the less efficient filter the more oil would make it through. It sounds like ac used the filter as the main restriction which is a fine plan normally. There was a supply chain shift 30 years later they didn’t predict is all. WIX also has a fantastic reputation elsewhere as of late a few hiccups as the parent company acquired others it’s what I try to use if I can or at least use to cross to other options their site is very nice. It’s by far what other people tell me they are using for a good filter most often in the neighborhood.

I will agree on the napa price issue above I have no idea what the average joe retail prices are but they need to cool it a bit. I have noticed my “usual” places must also be others usual places because their prices jumped fastest because they had to replace inventory in real time. The question became do I wait it out because eventually they should become the reasonable ones again or price shop that def tote half price from the dealership who until fairly recently never had any turnover? Tough decision when you are still counting your beans and all of a sudden it’s time to make the soup.

It’s honestly amazing that all the bypass systems still work 70 years on. 100 hour oil changes were common for multiple reasons had to keep it clean!

 

[Jim.ME]

Metering for the farmall is in the bolt attached to the filter housing if I remember right without going to get the picture from a couple months ago for that fellow with the oil passage question. So that would put the filter after the main restriction hence no visible problem and the less efficient filter the more oil would make it through. It sounds like ac used the filter as the main restriction which is a fine plan normally. There was a supply chain shift 30 years later they didn’t predict is all. WIX also has a fantastic reputation elsewhere as of late a few hiccups as the parent company acquired others it’s what I try to use if I can or at least use to cross to other options their site is very nice. It’s by far what other people tell me they are using for a good filter most often in the neighborhood.

I will agree on the napa price issue above I have no idea what the average joe retail prices are but they need to cool it a bit. I have noticed my “usual” places must also be others usual places because their prices jumped fastest because they had to replace inventory in real time. The question became do I wait it out because eventually they should become the reasonable ones again or price shop that def tote half price from the dealership who until fairly recently never had any turnover? Tough decision when you are still counting your beans and all of a sudden it’s time to make the soup.

It’s honestly amazing that all the bypass systems still work 70 years on. 100 hour oil changes were common for multiple reasons had to keep it clean!

Here are a couple pictures from IH/Farmall manuals I found online showing the orifice to be at the outlet. A bypass filter with an outlet orifice (restriction) like these will not affect oil pressure depending on the filter media as will be seen with a bypass filter having metered (restricted) inlet, like the AC has. From the cut away of the oil filter housing it appears the oil return is through the small hole at the lower (threaded) end of the retaining bolt.

 

[Tgrasher]

Your filter price got me to looking online and found Baldwin T-308M (same as NAPA 7011) and ordered 5 for $18 apiece. Better prices are out there, it would appear some are making more than 100 percent profit from their prices. Used to be, 40 percent was the norm.

 

[Jim.ME]

Your filter price got me to looking online and found Baldwin T-308M (same as NAPA 7011) and ordered 5 for $18 apiece. Better prices are out there, it would appear some are making more than 100 percent profit from their prices. Used to be, 40 percent was the norm.

The T308-M and the T300-M look similar and may work, but the T308-M does not appear to be the correct BALDWIN filter for ACs.

T300-M is the direct cross on the BALDWIN site for the AC 70240912 (WIX 57011/ NAPA 7011) used on the Allis Chalmers. WIX and NAPA cross the T300-M to the 57011 and 7011 respectively.

BALDWIN T308-M crosses to a WIX 51106 on the WIX site, and vice versa. The WIX site says primary application is on Wisconsin engines. The BALDWIN site did not show it as used by AC.

Just passing on the info I have found in checking filters. I have never happened to see the BALDWIN T308-M suggested for use on ACs.