Brazing Nut onto Stripped Farmall 140 Steering Box Mounting Hole

[RTR]

Wanted to check with you guys on the best way to repair (without removing) the holes for the implement mounting on the steering box housing of a Farmall 140. It is the same as a Super A, 100 , and 130 and is larger but similar to a Cub. I have one with the holes stripped out closest to the engine block and need to repair them. Was going to braze a thin 5/8" nut onto the top of the stripped hole. If that is what I do, the guy that will be brazing it said to just buy the rods. Which brazing rods do I need for this job. Buying from McMaster Carr online.

 

[wore out]

Wanted to check with you guys on the best way to repair (without removing) the holes for the implement mounting on the steering box housing of a Farmall 140. It is the same as a Super A, 100 , and 130 and is larger but similar to a Cub. I have one with the holes stripped out closest to the engine block and need to repair them. Was going to braze a thin 5/8" nut onto the top of the stripped hole. If that is what I do, the guy that will be brazing it said to just buy the rods. Which brazing rods do I need for this job. Buying from McMaster Carr online.

Wanted to check with you guys on the best way to repair (without removing) the holes for the implement mounting on the steering box housing of a Farmall 140. It is the same as a Super A, 100 , and 130 and is larger but similar to a Cub. I have one with the holes stripped out closest to the engine block and need to repair them. Was going to braze a thin 5/8" nut onto the top of the stripped hole. If that is what I do, the guy that will be brazing it said to just buy the rods. Which brazing rods do I need for this job. Buying from McMaster Carr online.

Is there a reason the threaded holes can't be repaired with HeliCoils or ThredSerts?

I don't see where you are going to get much strength out of nuts stuck to the surface of cast iron "in situ" without good access for brazing or the ability to fully preheat the bare casting.

 

[560Dennis]

better picture would help ,cant see where the thread sidewalls are, is the picture of yours , what size it is it ?
just a helicoil , or thread inserts
braze it up drill and tap to like new . Is it a blind hole ?
need more information

 

[RTR]

Is there a reason the threaded holes can't be repaired with HeliCoils or ThredSerts?

I don't see where you are going to get much strength out of nuts stuck to the surface of cast iron "in situ" without good access for brazing or the ability to fully preheat the bare casting.C

Can’t get to them without dissembling the axle and steering box then you have a can of worms then. Trying to fix on the tractor.

 

[Janicholson]

Wanted to check with you guys on the best way to repair (without removing) the holes for the implement mounting on the steering box housing of a Farmall 140. It is the same as a Super A, 100 , and 130 and is larger but similar to a Cub. I have one with the holes stripped out closest to the engine block and need to repair them. Was going to braze a thin 5/8" nut onto the top of the stripped hole. If that is what I do, the guy that will be brazing it said to just buy the rods. Which brazing rods do I need for this job. Buying from McMaster Carr online.

an example

Stripped holes need inserts not a brazed nut. as pointed out the nut will easily tear off the casting. Doing it in place is never going to get hot enough to adhere braze. If hot enough the gearbox would be ruined. This link example is like a helicoil brand. The pictured one is better and easier. Jim

 

[560Dennis]

Recommend if you repair that casting with braze you slowly pre heat most of it so I won’t crack it at any sharp corners ,or places that will raise the stresses, pretty risky if that’s not done ,the heat will also affect the seals ,
Theres a video on you tube that’s about repairing the 140 steering gear that is a good resource how get it off .
Take your time you’ll fix it

 

[Fritz Maurer]

“The guy brazing it said just go buy the rods”.


He didn’t bother to tell you which rods, and left it up to you to find out online?


If I were on the field repair like this, I would never let the customer source my welding equipment.

 

[kshansen]

If there is good non cracked casting around the stripped hole(s) I woudl go with the HeliCoils, Used them wo repair many things from transmission control valves, chainsaw pull starter cover, to stone crushers over the 40+ year working as a mechanic in a stone quarry. Don't think I ever had a failure if they were installed right.

Have also used some of the repairs things like Janicholson shows, but they can be a problem if not much metal around the damaged hole and can cost more and be a bit harder to install with out special tools.

 

[Janicholson]

If there is good non cracked casting around the stripped hole(s) I woudl go with the HeliCoils, Used them wo repair many things from transmission control valves, chainsaw pull starter cover, to stone crushers over the 40+ year working as a mechanic in a stone quarry. Don't think I ever had a failure if they were installed right.

Have also used some of the repairs things like Janicholson shows, but they can be a problem if not much metal around the damaged hole and can cost more and be a bit harder to install with out special tools.

More per unit, yes, but factor in the special (non standard) tap and tool required for the Helicoil, compared to a standard inch or metric tap/drill and no tool needed for the inserts they can be cheaper. for a mechanic/tech, the tools for the coils are always an investment. for a one off, not so much. Jim

 

[kshansen]

More per unit, yes, but factor in the special (non standard) tap and tool required for the Helicoil, compared to a standard inch or metric tap/drill and no tool needed for the inserts they can be cheaper. for a mechanic/tech, the tools for the coils are always an investment. for a one off, not so much. Jim

Yes and they can be stronger but do need a larger amount of material around damaged hole due to the larger outside diameter.

For the Helicoil type repair kits:
Not knowing the size of the bolt that the hole needs repairs for hard to know what kit would be needed but looks like 3/8 or 1/2 inch the store brand kits from AutoZone or Advance Auto would run around $26 to $30 dollars not cheap but better than replacing the part the threads are in.

What ever type repair chosen they do take a little skill and care but not all that hard if one takes their time!

 

[stevieb49829]

Is it possible to tap the holes to the next bigger size and use step studs to replace the bolts? I've done that several times. Finding or making the step studs is the hardest part of the operation. steve

 

[560Dennis]

I see why your going to braze a nut to the bolster , can’t get a drill in there to follow the originals, that right .

suggest your check the casting real good for cracks , a lot of force with implements on those loose strips threads , use some something that shows up crack s , I use kerosene .

 

[Jim Becker]

Is it possible to tap the holes to the next bigger size and use step studs to replace the bolts?

No. This is more of a setscrew application. If he had room to tap bigger, he could probably just use the next size bigger bolt. (He doesn't, no room for the drill.) If there is no other damage to the casting, the best fix is probably the Helicoil. If I was in his situation and needed to fix it, I would probably split the tractor at the front of the block to get room, then Helicoil it.

 

[RTR]

“The guy brazing it said just go buy the rods”.


He didn’t bother to tell you which rods, and left it up to you to find out online?


If I were on the field repair like this, I would never let the customer source my welding equipment.

We have a tech in our shop at work that does brazing for us. He picked out a set of rods and I got some. I'm really re-thinking this though because I want to fix it right; I just don't have the time to deal with this set-back. I have a guy wanting the tractor pretty bad and really hate that this is a situation. Yeah I could fix it right with helicoils and a steering box kit but it might be this winter before I can get it done.

 

[RTR]

No. This is more of a setscrew application. If he had room to tap bigger, he could probably just use the next size bigger bolt. (He doesn't, no room for the drill.) If there is no other damage to the casting, the best fix is probably the Helicoil. If I was in his situation and needed to fix it, I would probably split the tractor at the front of the block to get room, then Helicoil it.

That Might be what I do Jim. Best option and fix and least intrusive.

 

[RTR]

Can someone explain to me how to helicoil the threads in the bolster. Like what tools I need and how to do it? Never done a helicoil and want to make sure I do it right!

 

[Fritz Maurer]

You need a clear area at right angles to the repair hole, and sufficient height clearance to get your drill in there to drill for the Heli-Coil tap.

I doubt you will have room for a tap wrench, but there are 3/8” square drive tap sockets so that you can start the tap with an ordinary ratchet. It will be a plug-style tap so you need to pay attention to starting the tap straight ; a little difficult by
hand and a ratchet because a plug tap doesn’t have much lead, but can be done if you’re careful.

Run the tap all the way through after it stops cutting. If you stop short for any reason, the Heli-coil insert will reduce in diameter over these shallow threads , and the bolt will jam tight before it ever reaches what you want to clamp with it.

 

[560Dennis]

Can someone explain to me how to helicoil the threads in the bolster. Like what tools I need and how to do it? Never done a helicoil and want to make sure I do it right!

check this on you tube

 

[RTR]

You need a clear area at right angles to the repair hole, and sufficient height clearance to get your drill in there to drill for the Heli-Coil tap.

I doubt you will have room for a tap wrench, but there are 3/8” square drive tap sockets so that you can start the tap with an ordinary ratchet. It will be a plug-style tap so you need to pay attention to starting the tap straight ; a little difficult by
hand and a ratchet because a plug tap doesn’t have much lead, but can be done if you’re careful.

Run the tap all the way through after it stops cutting. If you stop short for any reason, the Heli-coil insert will reduce in diameter over these shallow threads , and the bolt will jam tight before it ever reaches what you want to clamp with it.

I am planning on pulling the whole front end off the tractor......steering box, axle and all.....via the 4 mounting bolts that bolt to the engine block. Once that front section is rolled away from the tractor and held up with fork lift, i can block the wheels and should be able to get a drill anywhere it is needed.

 

[RTR]

Type of drill bit and size of drill bit needed for this procedure ? The OEM threads are 5/8 coarse which is what I'd like to keep it at.