Farmall 826 diesel starter/electrical issues

[down_right]

For some reason a week ago this tractor blows the fuse when I try to turn it on. 20A inline blade fuse specifically. I’ve already checked the wiring (10awg), etc and even removed the switches and have them suspended in the air so eliminate possibility of it being a short. Jumping the solenoid/start directly doesn’t work. It just makes a whirring sound leading me to think the solenoid was f’d, but that doesn’t explain everything as I replaced that and fuse still keeps breaking.

I’m guessing there’s some sort of internal issue with the starter and looking to replace it as I’m tired of taking that sob out and back in again and again. It’s a delco remy 1113197/30MT/CCW. I was looking into it and was wondering if a 39MT gear reduction starter would be a possibility for this tractor, better starting power and all that

Any thoughts on things to check, and/or the new starter?

 

[Janicholson]

For some reason a week ago this tractor blows the fuse when I try to turn it on. 20A inline blade fuse specifically. I’ve already checked the wiring (10awg), etc and even removed the switches and have them suspended in the air so eliminate possibility of it being a short. Jumping the solenoid/start directly doesn’t work. It just makes a whirring sound leading me to think the solenoid was f’d, but that doesn’t explain everything as I replaced that and fuse still keeps breaking.

I’m guessing there’s some sort of internal issue with the starter and looking to replace it as I’m tired of taking that sob out and back in again and again. It’s a delco remy 1113197/30MT/CCW. I was looking into it and was wondering if a 39MT gear reduction starter would be a possibility for this tractor, better starting power and all that

Any thoughts on things to check, and/or the new starter?

With a wiring diagram the wire/s leading away from the fuse that blows must be traced to its application If the application is disconnected and the fuse still blows, the wire itself is shorted to ground along its length. A starter motor whirring is an indication that the solenoid is not connected to the drive yoke. @ separate issues. Jim

 

[wore out]

For some reason a week ago this tractor blows the fuse when I try to turn it on. 20A inline blade fuse specifically. I’ve already checked the wiring (10awg), etc and even removed the switches and have them suspended in the air so eliminate possibility of it being a short. Jumping the solenoid/start directly doesn’t work. It just makes a whirring sound leading me to think the solenoid was f’d, but that doesn’t explain everything as I replaced that and fuse still keeps breaking.

I’m guessing there’s some sort of internal issue with the starter and looking to replace it as I’m tired of taking that sob out and back in again and again. It’s a delco remy 1113197/30MT/CCW. I was looking into it and was wondering if a 39MT gear reduction starter would be a possibility for this tractor, better starting power and all that

Any thoughts on things to check, and/or the new starter?

First of all, your tractor must have been "farmerized" as a tractor built in the 1969-1971 era wouldn't have had "blade fuses" from the factory, and 20 Amps MAY be a bit on the weak side to operate a starter solenoid on a tractor starter. Are you SURE that is the rating of the fuse that worked previously?

So what all has been changed, likely we'll never know!

A failed STARTER generally wouldn't blow a fuse in the wire that activates the solenoid although a SOLENOID with a shorted coil certainly would.

You say ''Jumping the solenoid/start directly doesn’t work. It just makes a whirring sound", EXACTLY what did you "jumper"?

If it was the two large terminal studs that is EXACTLY what will happen, that puts power to the starter WITHOUT powering the solenoid to pull the starter drive into mesh.

To test, what you need to do is jumper battery power to the small terminal stud on the starter marked "S".

 

[down_right]

First of all, your tractor must have been "farmerized" as a tractor built in the 1969-1971 era wouldn't have had "blade fuses" from the factory, and 20 Amps MAY be a bit on the weak side to operate a starter solenoid on a tractor starter. Are you SURE that is the rating of the fuse that worked previously?

So what all has been changed, likely we'll never know!

A failed STARTER generally wouldn't blow a fuse in the wire that activates the solenoid although a SOLENOID with a shorted coil certainly would.

You say ''Jumping the solenoid/start directly doesn’t work. It just makes a whirring sound", EXACTLY what did you "jumper"?

If it was the two large terminal studs that is EXACTLY what will happen, that puts power to the starter WITHOUT powering the solenoid to pull the starter drive into mesh.

To test, what you need to do is jumper battery power to the small terminal stud on the starter marked "S".

yes, i used blade fuse as i was tired of the crappy oem type which were also 20A. previously it worked. i tried jumping it as you said, and pulling on the (plunger?) by hand does force the armature thingy to push forward where it would connect with the engines flywheel. however it looks like some rubber type of covering (i assume insulation) covering the (plunger?) is somehow in tatters.

if that is for insulation, then that would mean any attempt to turn it over would just instantly blow the fuse as it has direct contact with the starter's frame, and therefore ground, blowing the fuse? if that's the case then if there are kits that sell a replacement for that part, or even the entire mechanism that pulls in/out of tthe solenoid the problem would be solved?

could i just "make" my own, somehow?

 

[wore out]

yes, i used blade fuse as i was tired of the crappy oem type which were also 20A. previously it worked. i tried jumping it as you said, and pulling on the (plunger?) by hand does force the armature thingy to push forward where it would connect with the engines flywheel. however it looks like some rubber type of covering (i assume insulation) covering the (plunger?) is somehow in tatters.

if that is for insulation, then that would mean any attempt to turn it over would just instantly blow the fuse as it has direct contact with the starter's frame, and therefore ground, blowing the fuse? if that's the case then if there are kits that sell a replacement for that part, or even the entire mechanism that pulls in/out of tthe solenoid the problem would be solved?

could i just "make" my own, somehow?

The "boot" over the solenoid linkage is simply to keep dust and moisture out of the mechanism, and has NOTHING to do with "electrically insulating" anything.

GOOGLE "Delco1949618" for sources for a new "boot".

It seems likely that the solenoid is internally shorted, GOOGLE "Delco 1115510" for replacement sources.

 

[Mrfred54]

Those tractors never had a fuse in the starting system. If you got an an in line fuse for the starter, it better be a very heavy one, cause it will draw lots and lots of amps. Originally the only fuse for those tractors was for lights. That tractor should start as mentioned above by jumping across the solenoid. Are battery cables good? Ground cable good at the chassis. Battery condition?? If you are certain every is good and you jump across the solenoid and it won't crank over then you have solenoid issues or starter

 

[Janicholson]

Those tractors never had a fuse in the starting system. If you got an an in line fuse for the starter, it better be a very heavy one, cause it will draw lots and lots of amps. Originally the only fuse for those tractors was for lights. That tractor should start as mentioned above by jumping across the solenoid. Are battery cables good? Ground cable good at the chassis. Battery condition?? If you are certain every is good and you jump across the solenoid and it won't crank over then you have solenoid issues or starter

The OP hasn't identified what the fuse is being connected to. It is just nebulous at this point. My idea above is diagnostic! Jim

 

[used red MN]

Those tractors never had a fuse in the starting system. If you got an an in line fuse for the starter, it better be a very heavy one, cause it will draw lots and lots of amps. Originally the only fuse for those tractors was for lights. That tractor should start as mentioned above by jumping across the solenoid. Are battery cables good? Ground cable good at the chassis. Battery condition?? If you are certain every is good and you jump across the solenoid and it won't crank over then you have solenoid issues or starter

@Mrfred54 and others, he has been doing some wiring maneuvers on this tractor. I would link the posts but it is so darn easy with this new format to go back and look at them yourselves. Hover over his profile banner and you will see “Messages” there in the lower left, currently it shows 22. Click on that number and that brings up his posting history. On a phone you have to click the username to see it. One post about “panel” wiring and another about cab wiring.

 

[caterpillar guy]

In the past posts I see so much duplication of everything I get confused with what he is doing. As for fuses I would dump one in the starter circuits and just use one on the lights. Then wire it from the Solenoid up to the key switch over to the push button switch and then down to the S terminal on the Solenoid this will start it with no fuses and no problems. The push button switch is the same switch as they used for the ether push button . Not the same switch but same switch used in both jobs if that makes sense. 2 switches one used for each job. Then worry about fuses in connection with gauges and such. don't worry about one in the start circuit. There are relys that can be used in place of fuses though that becomes another whole bowl of fish for another time.

 

[Mrfred54]

Looked over some of his posts as (used red MN) suggested. Not real sure what he is trying to accomplish. The wiring harness was real simple on those old tractors and even simpler with the one wire alternator. Also, thanks (used red MN) for the info. Didn't know that. I'm not very computer savvy. At 70 years young, still learning

 

[used red MN]

Looked over some of his posts as (used red MN) suggested. Not real sure what he is trying to accomplish. The wiring harness was real simple on those old tractors and even simpler with the one wire alternator. Also, thanks (used red MN) for the info. Didn't know that. I'm not very computer savvy. At 70 years young, still learning

I am not sure where his fuse is, but if you noticed I suggested he fuse his main feed meaning only temporarily until he had his wiring sorted out. I probably should have made that clear, that I was merely trying to help him avoid frying his added wiring because he certainly was a long way from mastering the understanding of electrical circuits. He seems to be a check the forum once or twice a week type of guy.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

yes, i used blade fuse as i was tired of the crappy oem type which were also 20A. previously it worked. i tried jumping it as you said, and pulling on the (plunger?) by hand does force the armature thingy to push forward where it would connect with the engines flywheel. however it looks like some rubber type of covering (i assume insulation) covering the (plunger?) is somehow in tatters.

if that is for insulation, then that would mean any attempt to turn it over would just instantly blow the fuse as it has direct contact with the starter's frame, and therefore ground, blowing the fuse? if that's the case then if there are kits that sell a replacement for that part, or even the entire mechanism that pulls in/out of tthe solenoid the problem would be solved?

could i just "make" my own, somehow?

You're better off just getting a rebuilt starter if you can confirm that the solenoid isn't working. Odds are that the solenoid isn't the only problem.

 

[caterpillar guy]

If the solenoid just clicks I am sticking to the theory either the contacts have burned enough or the battery is low enough that is what it does. If jumping just across the 2 big terminals on the solenoid that whrring sound is all that will ever be since it is not pulling the gear into the ring gear. If not connecting to the trigger wire location to the top big terminal it will never engage the ring gear. IF it is being used and just clicking then the contacts are burned off inside the cap or battery is still low.