Ford 860 Exhaust Glowing Hot

[Lclear]

Hey guys,

About 10 years ago I got a 1956 Ford 860 that was surging (rpm would loop high/low). I put the project on the back burner until this year when our field became overgrown with autumn olive bushes and desperately needed to be brushhogged. Surprisingly, letting the tractor sit outside only created more issues and I ended up having to replace the alternator, ignition coil, and rebuild the carburetor. In addition, I converted the electrical to 12V, new spark plugs, points/rotor/condenser. The carburetor adjustments and point gap have been set according to the owners manual and the tractor starts right up and seems to be running well.

My concern is after about an hour of moderate brush hogging I noticed the exhaust was glowing red hot. I can't imagine this is normal and after reading through some forums it seems that the problem may have to do with timing or running lean. I checked the spark plugs and they appear wet so I'm critical of timing. I also noticed that if I shut the tractor off using the keyed ignition the tractor trys its best to keep running and sputters for some time until I pull the choke. Maybe this is normal as originally the tractor wouldn't have a key ignition but it might be a clue for someone more knowledgeable. I've attached a picture of the pipe in a dark barn. I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinion on the matter as this small project is quickly getting out of scope.

Important to note, the elbow after the manifold has a crack right down the center of it and the muffler has it's far share of leaks. These are next to be replaced, but could that be contributing to the problem to this extent?

Thanks in advance,
-Lclear

 

[old]

Hey guys,

About 10 years ago I got a 1956 Ford 860 that was surging (rpm would loop high/low). I put the project on the back burner until this year when our field became overgrown with autumn olive bushes and desperately needed to be brushhogged. Surprisingly, letting the tractor sit outside only created more issues and I ended up having to replace the alternator, ignition coil, and rebuild the carburetor. In addition, I converted the electrical to 12V, new spark plugs, points/rotor/condenser. The carburetor adjustments and point gap have been set according to the owners manual and the tractor starts right up and seems to be running well.

My concern is after about an hour of moderate brush hogging I noticed the exhaust was glowing red hot. I can't imagine this is normal and after reading through some forums it seems that the problem may have to do with timing or running lean. I checked the spark plugs and they appear wet so I'm critical of timing. I also noticed that if I shut the tractor off using the keyed ignition the tractor trys its best to keep running and sputters for some time until I pull the choke. Maybe this is normal as originally the tractor wouldn't have a key ignition but it might be a clue for someone more knowledgeable. I've attached a picture of the pipe in a dark barn. I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinion on the matter as this small project is quickly getting out of scope.

Important to note, the elbow after the manifold has a crack right down the center of it and the muffler has it's far share of leaks. These are next to be replaced, but could that be contributing to the problem to this extent?

Thanks in advance,
-Lclear

Running to lean will do that or timing being off can do that or even a clogged exhaust can cause that

 

[Tom in Mo.]

That's not normal. As Old says, lean or timing.

 

[Eman85]

Don't know what you mean by the tractor wouldn't have a keyed ignition. I wouldn't think the spark plugs would appear wet after having a glowing exhaust.

 

[Dieseltech]

If the distributor advance is stuck and not moving as engine speed increases, THAT WILL make the manifold cherry red as engine speeds up.

 

[john in la]

I never would guess running lean would cause this problem.
Now running rich and unburnt fuel burning in the manifold I would understand.

 

[Eman85]

You said it sat for a long time, check for plugged or restricted exhaust and air intake.

 

[old]

I never would guess running lean would cause this problem.
Now running rich and unburnt fuel burning in the manifold I would understand.

I don't know why it happens but an engine running lean will make them overheat so in turn cause the exhaust to be super hot also but running rich cool the exhaust because if the gas does burn the heat goes out the end of the pipe and the liquid gas cool the manifold and pipe

 

[Lclear]

Thanks for all the input. Im sure the intake is clear because I cleaned that all out and replaced the metal mesh air filters. I previously removed the manifold, elbow, muffler and tail pipe and confirmed there is no obstruction in that either.

Am I understanding it right that if timing is too advanced the fuel mixture may not be igniting fully which enables it to ignite in the muffler? I could also see how 'Olds' reply makes sense that it could actually cool things down.

I won't be around the tractor for the next two weeks but when I have the chance I'll check timing next and report back to the group with my findings. I plan on checking 4° BTDC at idle and manually trying to spin the rotor and see if it springs back.

Best,
Lclear

 

[Lclear]

Don't know what you mean by the tractor wouldn't have a keyed ignition. I wouldn't think the spark plugs would appear wet after having a glowing exhaust.

Good call Eman85, that was incorrect and the tractor would have still had a keyed ignition, just not a 4 position like it has now.

 

[BradCNY]

Check your exhaust valve lash. If set too tight it will cause your exact symptoms.

 

[sotxbill]

Retarded timing, running lean, or just working the snot out of it at night for several hours at full load.... all will show up at a red exhaust. At what rpm were you running??

 

[Dean]

Hey guys,

About 10 years ago I got a 1956 Ford 860 that was surging (rpm would loop high/low). I put the project on the back burner until this year when our field became overgrown with autumn olive bushes and desperately needed to be brushhogged. Surprisingly, letting the tractor sit outside only created more issues and I ended up having to replace the alternator, ignition coil, and rebuild the carburetor. In addition, I converted the electrical to 12V, new spark plugs, points/rotor/condenser. The carburetor adjustments and point gap have been set according to the owners manual and the tractor starts right up and seems to be running well.

My concern is after about an hour of moderate brush hogging I noticed the exhaust was glowing red hot. I can't imagine this is normal and after reading through some forums it seems that the problem may have to do with timing or running lean. I checked the spark plugs and they appear wet so I'm critical of timing. I also noticed that if I shut the tractor off using the keyed ignition the tractor trys its best to keep running and sputters for some time until I pull the choke. Maybe this is normal as originally the tractor wouldn't have a key ignition but it might be a clue for someone more knowledgeable. I've attached a picture of the pipe in a dark barn. I would greatly appreciate anyone's opinion on the matter as this small project is quickly getting out of scope.

Important to note, the elbow after the manifold has a crack right down the center of it and the muffler has it's far share of leaks. These are next to be replaced, but could that be contributing to the problem to this extent?

Thanks in advance,
-Lclear

Set the ignition timing to spec and verify that the centrifugal advance is working properly.

 

[Jim L WA]

The run-on is a clue I think. There is enough heat in one or more of the combustion chambers to ignite the fuel. Could the wet spark plugs be a result of having to choke the engine to shut down?
I would start by turning the main jet screw out (ccw) a half turn or so to richen the mixture.

 

[wore out]

I never would guess running lean would cause this problem.
Now running rich and unburnt fuel burning in the manifold I would understand.

''I never would guess running lean would cause this problem.''

It's TRUE, though!

 

[wore out]

Thanks for all the input. Im sure the intake is clear because I cleaned that all out and replaced the metal mesh air filters. I previously removed the manifold, elbow, muffler and tail pipe and confirmed there is no obstruction in that either.

Am I understanding it right that if timing is too advanced the fuel mixture may not be igniting fully which enables it to ignite in the muffler? I could also see how 'Olds' reply makes sense that it could actually cool things down.

I won't be around the tractor for the next two weeks but when I have the chance I'll check timing next and report back to the group with my findings. I plan on checking 4° BTDC at idle and manually trying to spin the rotor and see if it springs back.

Best,
Lclear

''Am I understanding it right that if timing is too advanced the fuel mixture may not be igniting fully''

No, you are not "understanding it right".

Advanced timing will cause "spark knock" and possibly break pistons, but is NOT likely to cause "hot exhaust".

 

[jimtrs]

Re: Retarded timing

Late (or retarded) ignition timing will make an engine run hot, and do it pretty quickly. The exhaust valves need to be closed when combustion happens. If ignition timing is too late the exhaust valve will be opening. This puts combustion pressures and temperatures directly out into the manifold. This gets an engine way too hot, and it does it fast. Carefully check your ignition timing.

 

[Lclear]

Re: Retarded timing

Late (or retarded) ignition timing will make an engine run hot, and do it pretty quickly. The exhaust valves need to be closed when combustion happens. If ignition timing is too late the exhaust valve will be opening. This puts combustion pressures and temperatures directly out into the manifold. This gets an engine way too hot, and it does it fast. Carefully check your ignition timing.

Great reply, without being by the tractor to check I think you hit the nail on the head. I noticed the exhaust heats up hot to the touch in seemingly seconds. Thank you!

 

[DanielW]

Don't have much to add to what others have said, but how does it behave under less load? Bush hogging can take a lot of power if you're really plowing through so heavy brush, and the 860 isn't an overly large tractor, nor does it have the torque of a similarly-sized diesel. I can trim grass or pasture with a 5' bush hog and 40 HP Case 530 without it even feeling it, but get into some real heavy stuff and it makes the 65 HP Ford 5000 grunt. Maybe your bush hog is just a lot of load for the 860.

Back in the day when people actually worked these tractors hard you'd see glowing exhausts more frequently. I've seen it on an Oliver (77 I think), a Massey 65, and have seen it a lot on a gas Fordson major when running the threshing machine hard for several hours. Not necessarily good to run them this hard, but not totally uncommon.

 

[Destroked 450]

Running lean or with retarded timing will heat up the manifold but it will also heat up the water temperature
We had a 850 from the time I was 7 to 22, when we were doing crops plowing, discing and culverting to ground that 850 got worked a lot
Any time it was working hard the manifold wasn’t red, it was white hot along with the muffler and part of the exhaust elbow, the rest of the elbow and lower part of the vertical exhaust pipe would be red
When the manifold was glowing white under a load we knew the tractor was running at its best

You said you converted it to 12 volt, I’m assuming a alternator, did you add a light or diode to the exciter wire to keep alternator feed back from powering the coil