help with a fuel pump

[kenbob]

I know this isn't the place for a ford pickup question, but I also know several members of this site have an excellent knowledge of mechanics. I need some help:
By brother and I are working on a 63 ford pickup 223 6 cyl (electirc wipers). We replaced an almost new fuel pump (probably chinese) because it was not pumping gas. We ordered a new one from Rock auto (for sure chinese) and it isn't pumping either! We know we have gas to where it enters the pump. We disconnected the outflow side to see what was up and nothing coming out. Realizing the fuel pump pumps more at higher rpm we rigged up gas to the carb bypassing the pump. Had it running for 15 or 20 seconds and still no gas coming out the outlet. We took it out. When we pumped it by hand it seemd to have a faintest bit of pressure, but when we put the output end in a glass of water and pumped by hand we could not make a bubble. I have replaced 1 fuel pump in my life on a 353 ford 45 years ago. As I remember it there was no mystery on how to do it. Take one out put the other one in.

These new pumps have very strange arms made up of several pieces of metal bolted together. There is one possibility (other than another bad pump) and that is we have it in upside down. It will fit upside down but we have not run it that way. Facing the engine, the motor turns right. I am not certain but I think these engines have a timing gear and not a chain. If that is so the cam would go left. If that is the case, the arm should be riding on the correct side of the cam lobe. We are hesitant to try running it with the pump upside down. Just some idea as to how much fuel we should expect to see come out when the engine is turned over would be helpful. Thanks all for your consideration. I could go to the truck page, but I know what a smart bunch we have here. (excluding me)

 

[wore out]

Even at cranking speed an old-fashioned mechanical fuel pump should shoot out a SCARY amount of gasoline, in pulses, with the outlet line disconnected.

Have you looked at the fuel pump cam lobe to be sure it hasn't been worn ''round'' or that the fuel pump lever isn't riding on an area ahead of or behind the actual cam lobe?

It's also certainly possible you have installed it downside up or POSSIBLY have the lever on the wrong ''side'' of the camshaft.

Or, perhaps, just the wrong pump for that particular engine.



As far as considering camshaft rotation direction as a factor in determining how it should be engaged, I think you are overthinking that.

 

[kenbob]

Ok, then we will try flipping it. It is the only pump available for the 223 engine. The cam lobe is fine as I put my finger in there and felt the bump and it is real
smooth with no groves. Info you provided as to how much fuel we should expect is exactly what type of info I needed. Thanks.

 

[tomturkey]

Kenbob; I installed one on a GM 283 a few years ago, not pumping fuel. The in and out were not as a person me would have thought, the fittings actually seemed to be backwards, but when I switched things around, plenty of gas, probably not your problem. I have some Ford truck manuals for around that time, would that be something you would be interested in?? let me know. gobble

 

[kenbob]

I my post a picture of the pump. I think it is quite strange looking for a ford pump.

 

[Tgrasher]

Once, out on the Iowa I80 interstate, my 72 Ford chassis motor home quit. Determined that the fuel pump was the problem, took it off, and walked 2 miles to a town. Luckily a parts store had one. After I put it on, it still wouldn't start and run. Checked outflow, nothing. So to prime it, I blew air with my mouth through the gas fill of the tank. Took all the energy I could muster with my lungs, but I got it flowing with the wife checking for fuel coming out. I was so needing air that as soon as I took my mouth off the fill hole, I sucked in air. Never thought that from the release of pressure that gas would spurt out but it did instantly and I managed to swallow a bunch. For the next two days, every time I ate something, I belched gas. So maybe if you put a few pounds of air pressure on the tank, it may cure your problem. Don't do it the way I did.

 

[kenbob]

Inlet/outlet were marked but we switched them anyway, and tried both ways.

 

[kenbob]

Here is a picture of the pump. The handle isn't like any other pump i have seen.

 

[Duner Wi]

I have run into on a 232 6 cyl. AMC where the replacement pump actuating lever rode on the opposite side of the cam from the removed defective pump.

 

[DanielW]

Are you sure the cam/rod inside the engine that strokes the pump is doing its thing (I don't know that era of Fords too well to know what mechanism strokes the pump). With the pump removed, you should be able to stroke it by hand and feel air pressure on the outlet. As mentioned: even at idle those mechanical pumps should kick out a pile of fuel.

If looking to rebuild the old one, try 'Then and Now Automotive' in Weymouth, MA. Super friendly folks that know everything there is to know about mechanical fuel pumps, and they can put together a kit for just about every pump imaginable (they have far more stock than what they show on their website). A properly rebuilt original will probably be far better quality than the Chinese replacement.

You could always put a cheapo electric pump on there. Just make sure to get a low PSI pump, or add a pressure regulator onto it if it's a higher psi pump. Anything over 4 psi can overpower the float needle and cause grief. Lots of cars/trucks/tractors have had the original mechanical pump bypassed with a cheap electric one. I have the best luck with the cheapo, 4 psi ones you can get on Amazon for about $25. Have one on an Allis, a Ford, and an old Fiat convertible all working well. I'd prefer to have kept the original mechanical one to keep it original, but it's just so easy to slap on a cheap electric one and be done with it.

 

[chcase]

Hopefully you still have old pump to compare to you should get good volume of fuel by working pump by hand. If not pump is bad.Double check to see if cam is good put your phone or brother's smartphone by fuel pump opening on engine and turn engine over a few turns to rule out bad cam.Might have to go to Napa or local auto parts to get a good pump.

 

[kenbob]

We had it out and get nothing by doing it by hand. The original is gone so can't rebuild. I guess both pumps were probably built by the same chinaman.

 

[kenbob]

Cam is good. Easy to feel it bump with my finger. I took it to a friend who is a service manage at Ford and he thinks it defective. He is of an age that he would know something about old time fuel pumps. One thing I will try yet is to try and fill the pump with gas from the inlet side and then pump it. I don't think it is airlocked but I suppose it is possible, just as getting 2 defective pumps in a row is possible.

 

[DanielW]

Some of the cheapo replacement mechanical pumps for older small engines would come in with either the check valves (or gaskets that functioned as the check valves) sticking from sitting with the assembly lube on them - you sometimes had to force some fluid pressure through them to start them working. Not sure if that might be the case with yours. but something to consider.

 

[kenbob]

gonna try it

 

[kenbob]

Took it to a guy I know who is service manage at Ford. He says it is defective. I even filled it up with gas until it ran out the outflow in case there was some kind of airlock but nothing. Gas passes through, but working the arm does nothing to boost it. I think an electric pump is in order.

 

[chcase]

I would go to Napa or a good auto parts store and get a fuel pump.( 3rd time might be the charm) If you do decide on a electric pump make sure it's installed away from the heat of the engine and have a pressure regulator too. The quality of stuff has gone down hill.

 

[Duner Wi]

Take it apart and check the check valves. Some time they are not staked in properly.