Is solenoid correct or not? Can i wire it?

[Dwd14329]

View attachment 1828

Jmor
Im looking for the wire leading to the foot starter switch. Am I just not seeing it or is it not there. I see an extension from the foot switch that depresses a metal c shape steel structure under the gear shifter but no wiring. Is it because the extension is completing the ground circuit when depressed. Trying to understand.

 

[Factotum]

Jmor
Im looking for the wire leading to the foot starter switch. Am I just not seeing it or is it not there. I see an extension from the foot switch that depresses a metal c shape steel structure under the gear shifter but no wiring. Is it because the extension is completing the ground circuit when depressed. Trying to understand.

It isn't in the pic. It shows the partial threaded hole where the switch goes. If your tractor starts only in neutral then all is good. I sometimes wonder why they didn't just put on a clutch switch? It would have been easier than pressing this switch with your thumb. Just press in the clutch to start. Easy. My mini Kubota b5100e is done like this. No clutch no start.
Edit: I suppose you don't have to get on the tractor to start it is a semi valid reason.

 

[Dwd14329]

It isn't in the pic. It shows the partial threaded hole where the switch goes. If your tractor starts only in neutral then all is good. I sometimes wonder why they didn't just put on a clutch switch? It would have been easier than pressing this switch with your thumb. Just press in the clutch to start. Easy. My mini Kubota b5100e is done like this. No clutch no start.
Edit: I suppose you don't have to get on the tractor to start it is a semi valid reason.

No, It doesn't have a seat switch Factotum. I agree, a clutch switch would have been nice but then again the era was almost 80 yrs ago. Surprised they have any safety at all. You know, the old switch is still installed, I don't know if that has anything to do with safeties still working or not. I doubt it! I can't ignore facts, like I mentioned the tractor starts when I want it too and it has to be in neutral. Like you said, its all good.

 

[Factotum]

Actually the threaded hole is not where the switch goes on 2ns. I was just reviewing this thread and noticed that it is a little different than an 8n. The pic JMOR posted has the switch to the left of the gear shift. This is how your tractor is Dwd. The wiring must either be behind the switch or run inside the casting that the switch is mounted to. My mistake. Also I wasn't trying to say your tractor has a seat switch, I meant that with a clutch switch it would be easier to be seated on the tractor to use it. You can start my Kubota from standing beside it, but you have to depress the clutch to do so. But your right, it's amazing that they even have a safety circuit in there.

 

[Jim.ME]

Jmor
Im looking for the wire leading to the foot starter switch. Am I just not seeing it or is it not there. I see an extension from the foot switch that depresses a metal c shape steel structure under the gear shifter but no wiring. Is it because the extension is completing the ground circuit when depressed. Trying to understand.

The missing lever and rod must have been someone else.

Not Jmor, however maybe these two pictures (borrowed from the web) will help clear things up. This shows what at least some 2Ns had. The actual switch is located on the engine end of the lower steering gear housing. When the transmission is in neutral the plunger on the bottom of the transmission mounted push button aligns with a hole in the transmission interlock which allows travel enough for the button to push down on the lever (this may be what you are calling "a metal c shape"). The lever pushes the rod forward to push on the starter switch button to close the contacts in the switch.

This may explain to you why we have questioned the starting safety working. A stand-alone push button, mounted on the dash, energizing the added starter solenoid (or relay to some) would bypass this system and allow it to start in gear. If you rewired the starter switch on the lower steering gear housing to provide power to the added solenoid, the safety start would work.


.

 

[Dwd14329]

Actually the threaded hole is not where the switch goes on 2ns. I was just reviewing this thread and noticed that it is a little different than an 8n. The pic JMOR posted has the switch to the left of the gear shift. This is how your tractor is Dwd. The wiring must either be behind the switch or run inside the casting that the switch is mounted to. My mistake. Also I wasn't trying to say your tractor has a seat switch, I meant that with a clutch switch it would be easier to be seated on the tractor to use it. You can start my Kubota from standing beside it, but you have to depress the clutch to do so. But your right, it's amazing that they even have a safety circuit in there.

Understood Factotum

 

[Dwd14329]

The missing lever and rod must have been someone else.

Not Jmor, however maybe these two pictures (borrowed from the web) will help clear things up. This shows what at least some 2Ns had. The actual switch is located on the engine end of the lower steering gear housing. When the transmission is in neutral the plunger on the bottom of the transmission mounted push button aligns with a hole in the transmission interlock which allows travel enough for the button to push down on the lever (this may be what you are calling "a metal c shape"). The lever pushes the rod forward to push on the starter switch button to close the contacts in the switch.

This may explain to you why we have questioned the starting safety working. A stand-alone push button, mounted on the dash, energizing the added starter solenoid (or relay to some) would bypass this system and allow it to start in gear. If you rewired the starter switch on the lower steering gear housing to provide power to the added solenoid, the safety start would work.

View attachment 1852View attachment 1853
.

I see it now...

 

[Dave G9N]

Tractor does not start with key on and push button depressed. Did I also mention it's my first year working on tractors. My point was to get the tractor running. I removed a sentence based on an observation.

All I meant to say was that having a similar tractor and limited experience working on tractors (2 years), that I understand your frustration. Things on my tractor are not as they should be. At first, when I asked for help here, I was informed rather abruptly that I wasn't making sense. It took a while to figure out that what I was describing was not a 2N, but a collection of 8N, 2N and random car parts that had been cobbled together over the years. It was only running by accident, and not going to continue for long without some changes.

Actually the threaded hole is not where the switch goes on 2ns. I was just reviewing this thread and noticed that it is a little different than an 8n. The pic JMOR posted has the switch to the left of the gear shift. This is how your tractor is Dwd. The wiring must either be behind the switch or run inside the casting that the switch is mounted to. My mistake. Also I wasn't trying to say your tractor has a seat switch, I meant that with a clutch switch it would be easier to be seated on the tractor to use it. You can start my Kubota from standing beside it, but you have to depress the clutch to do so. But your right, it's amazing that they even have a safety circuit in there.

There is no wiring there. The start button is not an electrical switch. It actuates a linkage that pushes the button that is hidden behind the starter switch inside the steering housing under the battery. The button moves a rocker that pushes the horizontal rod that runs through the steering box to the back of the switch.

JMOR's picture was of the same cutaway and only a small part of the rod shows from that camera angle running behind the steering gear. It is painted white so it looks more like a shadow than a separate part.

I have read in some threads that the linkage can wear to the point where it will not operate the switch. I assume, but can't confirm that the wear must be where the rocker rubs against the end of the rod. If that is correct, the start switch may work with just a new button instead of having to remove the steering assembly to get at the rod.

 

[Dave G9N]

Tractor does not start with key on and push button depressed. Did I also mention it's my first year working on tractors. My point was to get the tractor running. I removed a sentence based on an observation.

All I meant to say was that having a similar tractor and limited experience working on tractors (2 years), that I understand your frustration. Things on my tractor are not as they should be. At first, when I asked for help here, I was informed rather abruptly that I wasn't making sense. It took a while to figure out that what I was describing was not a 2N, but a collection of 8N, 2N and random car parts that had been cobbled together over the years. It was only running by accident, and not going to continue for long without some changes.

Actually the threaded hole is not where the switch goes on 2ns. I was just reviewing this thread and noticed that it is a little different than an 8n. The pic JMOR posted has the switch to the left of the gear shift. This is how your tractor is Dwd. The wiring must either be behind the switch or run inside the casting that the switch is mounted to. My mistake. Also I wasn't trying to say your tractor has a seat switch, I meant that with a clutch switch it would be easier to be seated on the tractor to use it. You can start my Kubota from standing beside it, but you have to depress the clutch to do so. But your right, it's amazing that they even have a safety circuit in there.

There is no wiring there. The start button is not an electrical switch. It actuates a linkage that pushes the button that is hidden behind the starter switch inside the steering housing under the battery. The start button moves a rocker that pushes the horizontal rod that runs through the steering box to the back of the switch.

JMOR's picture was of the same cutaway and only a small part of the rod shows from that camera angle running behind the steering gear. It is painted white so it looks more like a shadow than a separate part.

I have read in some threads that the linkage can wear to the point where it will not operate the switch. I assume, but can't confirm that the wear must be where the rocker rubs against the end of the rod. If that is correct, the start switch may work with just a new button instead of having to remove the steering assembly to get at the rod.

 

[HFJ]

I have read in some threads that the linkage can wear to the point where it will not operate the switch. I assume, but can't confirm that the wear must be where the rocker rubs against the end of the rod. If that is correct, the start switch may work with just a new button instead of having to remove the steering assembly to get at the rod.

simply remove the switch itself from the steering box and fasten the coin of your choice to the button, then put it back in and you're done, most likely for free (my favorite price.)

 

[Jim in LA]

Yesterdays Tractors website sells the correct parts. I buy parts from them all the time.

 

[Jim.ME]

Yesterdays Tractors website sells the correct parts. I buy parts from them all the time.

I believe he is all set for now. On Monday he posted that it started as it should based on the wiring arrangement he had, so he was satisfied with it.

 

[Larry Barnes]

JMOR's diagrams are on the n tractor club site. This site does or did not allow links to any site that was deemed to be a competitor, so if another site looks like it sells parts, it will get blocked. you can easily locate the n tractor club, and add this to the address: /howtos/pdfs/JMORs-Wiring-Pictograms.pdf



There is no actual neutral safety switch in a 2N, and it is not shown in the diagram. There is a plate with a hole in it connected to the shift lever. The starter button operates a linkage that operates the starter switch, which is the can below the battery that looks exactly like a solenoid. The small picture of the starter switch does show a small shaft in line with the button pointing down and to the left. There is a plate with a hole in it located just below the end of that shaft that is not shown in the picture. When the shifter is in neutral, the hole in the plate lines up with the shaft, allowing the button to move. When it is in gear, the plate has moved so the hole is no longer in line with the shaft and the plate prevents the button from moving. there is one image showing the plate which is blocked by the stupid swirl in the image below. This link seems to open it without the logo: cutaway

A neutral safety switch has to be operated in some way by something inside the transmission. A neutral safety switch has to sense the position of the gear shift lever in some way. Somewhere there has to be a mechanically operated switch that cuts power to the starter solenoid when the tractor is in gear. So you are saying that you can be sitting on the tractor with the trans in gear and the clutch pedal pushed down and the starter will not engage when the ignition is on and the start button is pressed? I would like to see how that switch was installed.

You may have to forgive someone who has patiently answered the same questions every week for 20 years and gets a little frustrated when someone like me comes along and asks again. I got scolded too, by people I have since learned meant well. I don't read every posting, so when someone comes along and expects me to know that their tractor is not wired normally, I have no way of knowing what they are talking about. You can't expect someone to look up a whole raft of your previous posts to study up on your problem. You have to describe the problem adequately.

Hello kind sir! Reading this answer you wrote, and I thought you might have some input to my problem:

After a long step by step study of why my 8N won't start in this cold weather, I accidentally discovered that the Ford's motor turns over much slower when the key switch is turned "on," than when it is left "off." I had replaced the two-year old 6-volt battery, thinking that was the problem. While the motor spins nicely when "off," turn the key to "on" and it slows to a "rump-rump' and the engine won't fire. Does a solenoid fade away when it gets old, or just die? Or is it the starter itself that's going bad? What's eating the power?
Thanks for your input!
Larry in Ohio

 

[Larry Barnes]

Hello kind sir! Reading this answer you wrote, and I thought you might have some input to my problem:

After a long step by step study of why my 8N won't start in this cold weather, I accidentally discovered that the Ford's motor turns over much slower when the key switch is turned "on," than when it is left "off." I had replaced the two-year old 6-volt battery, thinking that was the problem. While the motor spins nicely when "off," turn the key to "on" and it slows to a "rump-rump' and the engine won't fire. Does a solenoid fade away when it gets old, or just die? Or is it the starter itself that's going bad? What's eating the power?
Thanks for your input!
Larry in Ohio

Looking at some pictures on here, my 8N does have a "relay" bolted on top of the starter motor. Apparently older models did not.

 

[Jim.ME]

Looking at some pictures on here, my 8N does have a "relay" bolted on top of the starter motor. Apparently older models did not.

Larry,

I suggest you start a new thread of your own with the information related to your tractor rather than mixing it into this post. Some of the info related to your tractor may not be the same as the one in this thread. Some are going to see the new post to this thread and pass over it, as they know it has been haggled over and basically put to bed by the original poster. People will have questions they want answers to and tests for you to do. It will be easier to sort your issues out on a clean slate.

Edit: after I posted this I see you have started a new thread. That is the best way, good luck.