John Deere 40 ignition problem

[Mikemul]

Hello everyone,

At my home we have a John deere 40. It is a 2 cilinder gasoline/petroleum engine. The problem is that the tractor doesn?t start. The tractor have a spark while starting and it have gasoline. When i have start the plug is wet. I think the ignition doesn?t stay correct. Is there someone who have a manual or how i can set the ignition in the correct position?

Greetings Mike

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 04:50:16 03/14/20) Hello everyone,

At my home we have a John deere 40. It is a 2 cilinder gasoline/petroleum engine. The problem is that the tractor doesn?t start. The tractor have a spark while starting and it have gasoline. When i have start the plug is wet. I think the ignition doesn?t stay correct. Is there someone who have a manual or how i can set the ignition in the correct position?

Greetings Mike

Mike, where are you located?

 

[Mikemul]

I am locaties in the Netherlands. The town has the name:
Biddinghuizen

 

[Jim.ME]

From looking back at your posts the problems with this tractor have been going on for a while (since February 2019). It looks like you have talked about getting manuals, but haven't yet. If you get the manual(s) for your tractor it may help with communication and solving your problems now and in the future. You need John Deere service manual number SM2013 for a John Deere 40.

The YT Store sells some manuals, however I do not believe the YT Store will ship international.

In the states we can purchase John Deere manuals on line at https://techpubs.deere.com/Products/ProductSearch.aspx.I don't know if that site will ship world wide or if JD has a site for the same in Europe.

There is a seller on eBay that has good reprints and it appears would ship to you, peacefulcreekauctions. Search for "service manual set for john deere 40 tractor and theirs should be in the results. Some of their manual sets have service, parts and operator's manuals. I have a set of their manuals for a tractor and will consider using them again if a need arises in the future.

There are also some John Deere OEM manuals on ebay that might have sellers that ship international.

 

[James Howell]

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]how i can set the ignition in the correct position?[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

I am presuming that you want to set the ignition timing on your tractor.

Reviewed the [b:654c4848f0]OPERATOR'S MANUAL OM-T2-455 JOHN DEERE TRACTOR MODEL 40[/b:654c4848f0] in the [b:654c4848f0]PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE[/b:654c4848f0] section under the [b:654c4848f0]IGNITION TIMING[/b:654c4848f0] heading on pages 78-79.

[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]<font color="#ff0000">Disclaimer: Please note that the following photos are of "Sparky" our 1951 Model M.

Setting the ignition timing for the Model 40 is <B><I>exactly[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0] the same for the Model M.</I></B></font>

IGNITION TIMING



1. Loosen screw and turn cover from timing hole located on flywheel housing on distributor side of tractor.

2. Remove spark plug from No. 1 cylinder (front plug).

3. While cranking engine slowly, keep spark plug port covered with thumb to find proper engine revolution for compression stroke of No. 1 cylinder. Compression stroke will be noted by considerable pressure of air upon thumb.

[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]You might also consider using a hand crank.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]

4. Continue to crank slowly until ?SPARK? mark on flywheel lines up with marks on timing hole.

5. Insert distributor in well of cylinder block, with terminal for primary lead wire extending away from engine as shown in illustration. Make certain driving lug on distributor coupling is engaged its full distance in slot in oil pump drive gear.

[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]Loosen two retainer clamp cap screws.[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]

6. Twist distributor cam counterclockwise as far as possible, to take up spark advance, and hold cam in this advanced position while adjusting breaker point opening.

Point gap setting .018-.022.

7. With distributor cam held in advanced position (see Step 6), rotate distributor body until breaker points are beginning to open. (Make certain points are beginning to open and are not starting their closing cycle.)

8. Position distributor retainer clamps so they are in clamping position on distributor flange. Tighten two retainer clamp cap screws snugly (but do not deform clamps) to prevent movement of distributor while tractor is operating, which would change engine timing.

9. Replace cover plate on distributor body. Install rotor and distributor cap. Install all cables, being sure they make good contacts at distributor, at spark plug, and at coil terminals. See that terminals of distributor and coil are fully covered by rubber nipples.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mikemul]

In you?re comment stay: rotate distributor body until breaker points are beginning to open. (Make certain points are beginning to open and are not starting their closing cycle.)
What you mean with beginning open? While the point open or when they begin with the 0.22?

 

[dandeere]

Hi James, just have to compliment you on your reply. I always admired that guy Clooney and his knowledge, but your reply?s and willingness to share over the years is much appreciated.
Thanks Dan

 

[James Howell]

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]What you mean with beginning open?[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

Start with Step 6.

6. Twist distributor cam counterclockwise as far as possible, to take up spark advance, and hold cam in this advanced position while adjusting breaker point opening.

Point gap setting .018-.022.

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]While the point open or when they begin with the 0.22?[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

Yes - Both.

The point gap is now set and the points are [b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]open[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0].

When you start Step 7 the points will start to [b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]close[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0], then they will re-open.

Continue with Step 7.

7. With distributor cam held in advanced position (see Step 6), rotate distributor body until breaker points are beginning to open. (Make certain points are beginning to open and are not starting their closing cycle.)

You might consider repeating Step 7 a few times to see the "[i:654c4848f0]beginning to open[/i:654c4848f0]" stage.

Hope this help.

 

[James Howell]

Thanks for the compliment.

It takes some time to type the correct information from the operator's manual into a document, but this allows the opportunity to insert photos for important steps.

As a former online computer instructor, I developed my courses with step-by-step instructions and either photos or videos to enhance various lessons.

Figured I could do the same for various tractors to share here on YT.

 

[Mikemul]

Thanks for the comment,

I have set the ignition to
The right place. Now when i start the tractor doesn?t start. When i spray Some brake cleaner into the carburator the tractor start for Some seconds. The carburator have gasoline but doesn?t start. What can i do?

 

[James Howell]

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]The carburetor have gasoline but doesn?t start[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

If there is gas to the carburetor, open the drain cock.

Check for a steady flow of gasoline.

If there is gasoline flow through drain cock, then check the load needle setting.

Reviewed the [b:654c4848f0]Carburetors for John Deere Tractors and Engines SERVICE MANUAL SM-2024[/b:654c4848f0] under the [b:654c4848f0]Section 60 MARVEL-SCHEBLER TSX SERIES CARBURETORS[/b:654c4848f0] section in the [b:654c4848f0]Group 10 SERVICE DATA[/b:654c4848f0] heading on page 60-10-1.

Next check the idle needle setting.

Reviewed the [b:654c4848f0]Carburetors for John Deere Tractors and Engines SERVICE MANUAL SM-2024[/b:654c4848f0] under the [b:654c4848f0]Section 60 MARVEL-SCHEBLER TSX SERIES CARBURETORS[/b:654c4848f0] section in the [b:654c4848f0]Group 10 SERVICE DATA[/b:654c4848f0] heading on page 60-10-1.

Hope this helps.

 

[Mikemul]

I have set the carb. But the tractor doesn?t start. When i put a piece of wood in front of the carb inlet the tractor start. When i remove the wood the tractor fall out. I have try with new gasoline. Have clean the carb. And test with choke and clean the sparkplugs. Idk what i can do now.

Mike mul

 

[James Howell]

I have posted a message on the <a href="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=jd&th=641353">John Deere</a> forum.

Hopefully someone can help you from this point forward with your carburetor.

 

[Jim.ME]

(quoted from post at 17:18:56 03/21/20) I have set the carb. But the tractor doesn?t start. When i put a piece of wood in front of the carb inlet the tractor start. When i remove the wood the tractor fall out. I have try with new gasoline. Have clean the carb. And test with choke and clean the sparkplugs. Idk what i can do now.

Mike mul

Good evening Mike,

In looking back at your posts, you originally (February 2019) said the tractor set for 4 years. Even if you have posted some of these things before, a recap of everything you have done to it may help. Then we all will have all your info in one post.

1. Is it still a 6-volt, positive ground electrical system? If not, what is it?
2. Have you removed the valve rocker cover and checked to see that there is not a stuck valve?
3. Have you done a compression test? If so, what were the results?
4. Besides changing the coil, what have you replaced for parts on the ignition system?
5. Is the spark at the sparkplugs consistent when cranking the engine?
6. Did you clean the fuel tank?
7. Did you remove the sediment bowl assembly from the tank and thoroughly clean it? That includes cleaning the inlet port where fuel enters from the tank, I have seen those plugged.
8. Did you do the fuel flow test James Howell recommended? If so, what was the result? You should get at least liter in 2-3 minutes from the carburetor drain.
9. Please confirm what you have for a carburetor, manufacturer and model. There should be a brass tag on it with letters and numbers stamped in it. Do you have a manual for the carburetor? If it is in fact a Marvel Schebler TSX series there is a manual you can download for free and save to your computer at https://www.carburetor-parts.com/assets/manuals/dltx_tsc_manual.pdf. (You will need to copy and paste that link in your browser, it will not post as a clickable link.)
10. You said you cleaned the carburetor. Please describe how you cleaned it, any parts replaced, and how you adjusted it.
11. Have you moved forward on acquiring your own Service and Operator s manuals? You may pick up on a detail we missed (we don't all do as well at write-ups as James Howell) if you have the manuals and study/use them. If I knew of a place you could download them for free, I would tell you of it, somethings we just have to pay for. You have received some suggestions of sources for manuals in the past and in this post. peacefulcreekauctions was the eBay seller I was referring to, they have good quality reprints at a fair price.

It is likely some little thing preventing it from running and knowing exactly everything you have done may help pinpoint something

 

[M-MAN]

Basically what you are doing with the wood is choking it. It should be choking it with the choke knob but apparently it isn't. Just a guess but I think you might have the venturi ( brass bell shape tube in center ) in backwards.

I would take the carburetor back off. Clean the elbow screen. Clean the load needle and nozzle. Take the two jets out of the top side and clean. Use a set of TIG tip cleaners in the three holes in the throat. Put it back together making sure the venturi is turned the right way. Set load needle 1 & 1/2 rounds out to start. Idle jet 1 round out.

 

[Bob]

(quoted from post at 20:26:04 03/22/20) Basically what you are doing with the wood is choking it. It should be choking it with the choke knob but apparently it isn't. Just a guess but I think you might have the venturi ( brass bell shape tube in center ) in backwards.

I would take the carburetor back off. Clean the elbow screen. Clean the load needle and nozzle. Take the two jets out of the top side and clean. Use a set of TIG tip cleaners in the three holes in the throat. Put it back together making sure the venturi is turned the right way. Set load needle 1 &amp; 1/2 rounds out to start. Idle jet 1 round out.

Also verify that the choke butterfly closes tightly in it's bore. If not, the screws that hold it in place can be loosened a little and the plate moved a little in relation to the shaft /til it closes off the bore tightly.

Check that the spring-loaded "choke relief valve" and it's spring are present and closing tightly.

This won't fix all of your carb problems, but it should fire when choked just as you say it does with a wood block covering the carb inlet.

 

[Mikemul]

Hello,

Thanks for you?re comment. You mean the venturi on the right of the picture? I havent that part in my carburator? Where do i place that thing

https://www.mupload.nl/db/sq1vm7wsg

Greetings Mike

 

[Jim.ME]

Your picture doesn't show for me.

Please copy and paste this link in your search engine it should take you to a Marvel Schebler carburetor service manual at Mike's Carburetor. You should have a TSX model. The manual will show you the parts inside the carburetor (the venture should be internal of the carb).

https://www.carburetor-parts.com/assets/manuals/dltx_tsc_manual.pdf

Also here is a link to an article, on this site, about overhaul of a Marvel Schebler carb. It is for a carb on a Ford tractor but yours has the same parts. It is 5 pages long. Click here: https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/articles/restore/8ncarb/artint231_pg1.htm

 

[M-MAN]

17#
Untitled URL Link

 

[Mikemul]

(quoted from post at 03:26:04 03/23/20) Basically what you are doing with the wood is choking it. It should be choking it with the choke knob but apparently it isn't. Just a guess but I think you might have the venturi ( brass bell shape tube in center ) in backwards.

I would take the carburetor back off. Clean the elbow screen. Clean the load needle and nozzle. Take the two jets out of the top side and clean. Use a set of TIG tip cleaners in the three holes in the throat. Put it back together making sure the venturi is turned the right way. Set load needle 1 &amp; 1/2 rounds out to start. Idle jet 1 round out.

Where is the venturi placing? I have remove the carburator and i cant find that venturi tube?

 

[James Howell]

"[b:654c4848f0][i:654c4848f0]Where is the venturi placing? I have remove the carburator and i cant find that venturi tube?[/i:654c4848f0][/b:654c4848f0]"

 

[CPeter]

"You mean the venturi on the right of the picture? I havent that part in my carburator?"

Without the venturi, it is not going to run without choking it, hard!
Peter

 

[Mikemul]

(quoted from post at 17:39:17 03/23/20) "Where is the venturi placing? I have remove the carburator and i cant find that venturi tube?"

&lt;img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto9342.jpg"&gt;

I dont have a venturi in my carb. I Will order one venturi but all the sites i have seen that doesn t send to the Netherlands? Did someone know a company that Sells to the Netherlands and sells the venturi

 

[Bob]

(quoted from post at 14:26:31 03/23/20)

(quoted from post at 17:39:17 03/23/20) "[b:1b8ab0c63d][i:1b8ab0c63d]Where is the venturi placing? I have remove the carburator and i cant find that venturi tube?[/i:1b8ab0c63d][/b:1b8ab0c63d]"

&lt;img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto9342.jpg"&gt;

I dont have a venturi in my carb. I Will order one venturi but all the sites i have seen that doesn t send to the Netherlands? Did someone know a company that Sells to the Netherlands and sells the venturi

The Marvel Schebler part number for the venturi is 46-A11.

I would suggest searching the 'net to see if there's any available in your region.

 

[Jim.ME]

If you can't find one near you, Carbs Unlimited web site terms and conditions is one that says they ship international.

https://www.carburetion.com/Products/SearchAll.aspx?Search=46-A11

There are likely others that do as well.

 

[Mikemul]

thanks everyone for the response, i have order the venturi and place it into the carburator. The tractor start when i crank one time.

The tractor got white smoke and it have no power. I think the tractor get to much gasoline when i remove the plugs they wet. How can i fit it. Without shoke the same. Can it be a wrong sprinkler? I have set the screw in the carb. And the L screw

Thanks Mike mul

 

[Mikemul]

(reply to post at 20:33:45 03/30/20)

Edit: the float was not bent properly. when I mounted it it did not close the needle when the float tank was full. I bent it a bit so that it closes earlier so that it does not overflow. could this be it? that it get to much gasoline in the carb?

 

[Jim.ME]

Good to hear you got it started.

Yes if the float is set too high, or too low, it will create a problem. The level of the gasoline must be right. The Marvel Schebler manual and the YT article both describe setting the float at 1/4" (6.35mm) from the gasket when the top body is held inverted. Here is another link you can click on to reach an article which describes setting the float in the assembly of the carb.

https://route249.com/2018/09/09/how-to-rebuild-the-marvel-schebler-carburetor/

 

[Mikemul]

(reply to post at 02:03:07 03/31/20)

Thank you, i have set the float to the 6,35 mm now i replace the carb and test it. When the engine is cold there is not so much smoke. When he is warm there is a cloud of white smoke from the exhaust. I have test with choke but then he is fall out. I have switch to petroleum but no response. What can i do :/

 

[Jim.ME]

Thank you, i have set the float to the 6,35 mm now i replace the carb and test it. When the engine is cold there is not so much smoke. When he is warm there is a cloud of white smoke from the exhaust. I have test with choke but then he is fall out. I have switch to petroleum but no response. What can i do :/[/quote]

You start on gasoline and run until engine is up to operating temperature. Is that correct?

How did it run on gasoline? Did it warm up and smooth out with the choke off? Did you adjust the carburetor to best performance once it was running on gasoline?

Did you check the ignition timing with a timing light and set it after you got it running?

Have you checked the flow from the petrol tank?

Carb adjustments and timing need to be done after it is running.

 

[Mikemul]

(quoted from post at 21:47:54 03/31/20)
Thank you, i have set the float to the 6,35 mm now i replace the carb and test it. When the engine is cold there is not so much smoke. When he is warm there is a cloud of white smoke from the exhaust. I have test with choke but then he is fall out. I have switch to petroleum but no response. What can i do :/

How Many degrees before dead center is the ignition? So i can set my stethoscoop.

I have start with gasoline and warm it up. Then i switch it into petroleum and there is no different,

I have use the L screw and the stationair screw. But no different.

The tractor only start without shoke. When i use the shoke he fell out, with warm and cold engine the same. I think he he get to much fuel or the ignition stay correct.

I have check the flow and it is much. I think about liter per minute

 

[Jim.ME]

You only use the choke as needed, usually only for a cold start. If it is starting without the choke that is ok, but it might be getting a bit much gas so you carburetor may still not be just right. The screws will only make noticeable differences when adjusted under the correct conditions (engine speed, load, etc.). Applying the choke on a hot running engine will usually make them stall (which I think you mean by fall out) as they receive too little air and too much fuel.

Here is a scan of the page from a copy of the SM2013 manual on adjusting the timing. It is done with the engine warmed up to operating temperature.

You really need to get your own copy of the John Deere Service Manual number SM2013, so you have info like the scan I attached. You have been working on this tractor for a year now and there have been discussions now and again over the year, about you getting a manual since your second post. It will help you make adjustments and do repairs now and in the future. It will have pictures and drawings to help visualizing the text info. People here will still help you interpret things you don't understand in it. I wish you luck in making your tractor right and simply believe it would help you if you get a manual. It is a needed part for the tractor.