Meyer E47 snowplow sporadically jams on rising

[mikepastor11]

Hello,

My rebuilt Meyer E47 snowplow sporadically jams while rising, usually during a cold snowstorm. I have changed the hydraulic fluid using the Meyer 'anti-freeze-up' brand, but the fluid may have been sitting on the store shelf for a while. Motor Solenoid is sending 12v power to the pump, but it jams a few inches up. If I wait a few minutes, it starts working again.

Coils/valves are relatively new on this rebuilt pump. Car battery appears good at 12.6v. I have 'bled' the system by taking it through a full range of motion.

I keep thinking 'freeze-up' - should I change the hydraulic fluid again with fresh Meyer anti-freeze fluid?

Really need this snowplow to get us through this dark winter - any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Hemmjo]

Maybe a piece of dirt in the pump.

Can you lower it when it jambs going up? Will it angle side to side ok? When it jambs, does the motor just stop running, like it shut off, or does slow and stall, like it is trying to pump too much pressure? When it jambs, can you INSTANTLY angle the blade to each side?

 

[Goose]

I don't have a solution, but I can sympathize. I have a Western plow that was all messed up for over a year. It has a T handle control, and you'd hit the handle to lift the blade and the blade would angle. I finally replace the entire control unit with a new updated one, and somehow hit the right combination on valve adjustments. To this day, I don't know if the old controller was at fault or if I just hadn't hit the right combination of adjustments on the valves. And I'm not going to go into it again to try to find out.

 

[used red MN]

(Edit: Oops I didn’t see this first you are new,
Mike welcome to YT!) Just FYI, freezing in a hydraulic system would require a measurable amount of water alone. In most cases the cylinders on pickup type snow plows are relatively small. I would say for the most part when oil flows in and out of the cylinders there is so much turbulence that the water can’t separate out. Water mixed in oil becomes milky but generally cannot freeze solid enough to stop flow. Also the fact that you say waiting a bit allows it to work again is another strike against your “freeze” theory. Even if some of the system is under the hood the part that would freeze is the parts that are not under the hood. If that is so and you say it “is cold” what do you propose is thawing it to then let it suddenly resume working?
Answering the info requested by Hemmjo will help to proceed to a solution. My guess is a valve solenoid is overheating.

 

[Keith True]

Look at the suction on the pump.If you have piston packings going bad the suction will pick up a lot of fuzz,and will work until the oil in the pump is used up,and then work again when some more oil seeps through the fuzz.Why did you rebuild it in the first place?

 

[mikepastor11]

Thank you all for your responses! Here is some more information on the problem....

When it jams going up, everything just stops (not a grinding slow stop - just stops moving). Up, down and sideways also does not work.
Yesterday, I hooked up a circuit tester light that goes on when the main solenoid (under the hood) delivers power to the pump. I will also hook one up to the 'green wire' that delivers power to the 'B' valve/coil that controls the blade rising. I want to make sure that this is not an electrical problem.
The problem only happens on rising, so the 'B' valve/coil is becoming the main suspect here. I will keep this thread updated as I hopefully find new information.

Thanks again for your help! Really appreciate all of the comments. Here is a picture of my Meyer snowplow Jeep (1988 Wagoneer) on a happier day....

 

[mikepastor11]

Look at the suction on the pump.If you have piston packings going bad the suction will pick up a lot of fuzz,and will work until the oil in the pump is used up,and then work again when some more oil seeps through the fuzz.Why did you rebuild it in the first place?

I purchased the rebuilt E47 from RCPW, Inc. in Ohio and had a trustworthy mechanic install it two years ago. The old pump was leaking terribly. The 'jam' problem on the rebuilt E47 only started recently - otherwise it worked fine for the first winter.

Thanks Keith - I appreciate your help...

 

[Jim.ME]

I purchased the rebuilt E47 from RCPW, Inc. in Ohio and had a trustworthy mechanic install it two years ago. The old pump was leaking terribly. The 'jam' problem on the rebuilt E47 only started recently - otherwise it worked fine for the first winter.

Thanks Keith - I appreciate your help...

You said you hooked up a light and the main solenoid was sending power to the motor. You did not tell us if the motor was turning or not.

When you say it "jams" and everything stops, does the pump motor stop or does the pump motor keep running but the hydraulic raising of the blade stop? Jamming to me is a mechanical binding which prevents movement. If the motor is stopping that sounds electrical to me, not a "jam". Motor running but hydraulics stopping doesn't sound like a "jam" to me either. If the motor is still running, does it sound "loaded" as lifting or angling against something that won't move or does it sound like it is running free with no load against the motor?

When was the oil in the unit last changed? I have encountered some that had a screen on the pump pickup skim the screen over when the temperature was right. This was caused by some moisture making fine ice crystals in the fluid. after setting a few minutes they would pump again for a bit. When it is "jammed" what happens if you use a propane type torch and warm the bottom of the reservoir? I believe they have 12 volt heaters that can be install in most plow pump reservoirs to help prevent screen icing. I will say if your fluid is clear of water, it won't ice the screen.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Thank you all for your responses! Here is some more information on the problem....

When it jams going up, everything just stops (not a grinding slow stop - just stops moving). Up, down and sideways also does not work.
Yesterday, I hooked up a circuit tester light that goes on when the main solenoid (under the hood) delivers power to the pump. I will also hook one up to the 'green wire' that delivers power to the 'B' valve/coil that controls the blade rising. I want to make sure that this is not an electrical problem.
The problem only happens on rising, so the 'B' valve/coil is becoming the main suspect here. I will keep this thread updated as I hopefully find new information.

Thanks again for your help! Really appreciate all of the comments. Here is a picture of my Meyer snowplow Jeep (1988 Wagoneer) on a happier day....

I have to think that if it was "freezing up" as in cold and ice, leaving it would not help. It would just freeze harder.

 

[Jim.ME]

I have to think that if it was "freezing up" as in cold and ice, leaving it would not help. It would just freeze harder.

I can't disagree with your thought; however I have had it happen and it would clear up and work after it set a bit after it set for a bit while gathering tools to check things out. I would call this "light' contamination of the oil and was just enough to skim the surface of the suction screen and was temperature dependent. It may have been the air flow over the pump unit with the engine running dropping the temp of the unit just enough to cause it when conditions were right. It was water contamination, and the cure was changing the oil and flushing to clear the system.

 

[mikepastor11]

You said you hooked up a light and the main solenoid was sending power to the motor. You did not tell us if the motor was turning or not.

When you say it "jams" and everything stops, does the pump motor stop or does the pump motor keep running but the hydraulic raising of the blade stop? Jamming to me is a mechanical binding which prevents movement. If the motor is stopping that sounds electrical to me, not a "jam". Motor running but hydraulics stopping doesn't sound like a "jam" to me either. If the motor is still running, does it sound "loaded" as lifting or angling against something that won't move or does it sound like it is running free with no load against the motor?

When was the oil in the unit last changed? I have encountered some that had a screen on the pump pickup skim the screen over when the temperature was right. This was caused by some moisture making fine ice crystals in the fluid. after setting a few minutes they would pump again for a bit. When it is "jammed" what happens if you use a propane type torch and warm the bottom of the reservoir? I believe they have 12 volt heaters that can be install in most plow pump reservoirs to help prevent screen icing. I will say if your fluid is clear of water, it won't ice the screen.

Hello Jim,

The car motor is running. It is definitely just stopping and not a "jam". I have taped the circuit tester light to my hood so I can clearly see the actual power next time happens.

The hydraulic oil is becoming more suspect...

Thanks!

 

[Jim.ME]

Hello Jim,

The car motor is running. It is definitely just stopping and not a "jam". I have taped the circuit tester light to my hood so I can clearly see the actual power next time happens.

The hydraulic oil is becoming more suspect...

Thanks!

Whether the car engine is running or not, shouldn't matter, unless your battery is no good... My question is does the pump motor stop/stall or does it keep running? Generally, the pump motor will run easily if not building pressure to move a function, which can be caused by a blocked suction, so it is not getting oil to pump.

 

[mikepastor11]

The Meyer Snowplow worked fine this morning, but it was a balmy 28 degrees Fahrenheit here. It failed during the last snowstorm when it was certainly in the teens with wet driving snow.

I have topped off the hydraulic fluid (needed a few tablespoons) and set up my circuit tester lights. (First from main car battery negative to E47 main red positive. Second from battery negative to RED snowplow control wire - Coil/Valve 'B' ).

Does it make sense for me to just change the hydraulic fluid and clean the filters again? Is it worth the extra money to buy the name brand 'Meyer Anti-FreezeUp' fluid at around $25 a quart? Does hydraulic fluid have a shelf life? Someone told me that it is a 4-5 years limit...

Just waiting for the next snowstorm - I will keep this thread posted on any progress... Thanks!

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[mikepastor11]

Whether the car engine is running or not, shouldn't matter, unless your battery is no good... My question is does the pump motor stop/stall or does it keep running? Generally, the pump motor will run easily if not building pressure to move a function, which can be caused by a blocked suction, so it is not getting oil to pump.

Pump motor appears to be stopped when the problem happens - i don't hear/feel any grinding. I have the circuit tester setup to to fully check the power to the motor next time it happens.

Thanks!

 

[used red MN]

Does the main feed a solid cable directly to the battery? I’m not sure if there is a circuit breaker that would handle that load but it sounds like a breaker could be kicking out and then auto-resetting.

 

[Jim.ME]

Pump motor appears to be stopped when the problem happens - i don't hear/feel any grinding. I have the circuit tester setup to to fully check the power to the motor next time it happens.

Thanks!

E47 is just the hydraulic unit model not the plow package, correct?

The motor would spin easily and not make any grinding noise if the pump is not pulling oil in to make pressure.

Is worth it to try changing the fluid? I think likely yes, it is. Besides draining the reservoir, you should also unhook all the rams (all are single acting I believe) and push the rods in to clear as much of the fluid out as you can. If not, the Myer fluid I would find a generic snowplow fluid that says it meets Myer requirements. If the pump suction has a screen, it should be checked and cleaned.

Do you have the Owner's manual for your unit? If not, I think you can download one at Myer Support. I think the manual calls for an annual post-season drain, flush, and fresh fill. I would do it pre-season to get rid of any moisture that accumulated over the summer. I would recommend keeping the hydraulic unit covered as much as possible. It is surprising how much water some will gather, for as tight as they appear.

 

[kcm.MN]

Check here:
Meyer Snowplow Online Troubleshooter

 

[mikepastor11]

E47 is just the hydraulic unit model not the plow package, correct?

The motor would spin easily and not make any grinding noise if the pump is not pulling oil in to make pressure.

Is worth it to try changing the fluid? I think likely yes, it is. Besides draining the reservoir, you should also unhook all the rams (all are single acting I believe) and push the rods in to clear as much of the fluid out as you can. If not, the Myer fluid I would find a generic snowplow fluid that says it meets Myer requirements. If the pump suction has a screen, it should be checked and cleaned.

Do you have the Owner's manual for your unit? If not, I think you can download one at Myer Support. I think the manual calls for an annual post-season drain, flush, and fresh fill. I would do it pre-season to get rid of any moisture that accumulated over the summer. I would recommend keeping the hydraulic unit covered as much as possible. It is surprising how much water some will gather, for as tight as they appear.

I have ordered the fresh Meyer hydraulic fluid ( M-1 De-icer) and hopefully will be able to drain and clean the filters in a few days. The 'light contamination' of the hydraulic fluid appears to be the prime suspect at this point.

I will keep this thread posted on any progress and hopefully a final solution.

Thanks again to Jim.ME and all of the other people who have shared ideas on solving this vexing problem...

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

E47 is just the hydraulic unit model not the plow package, correct?

The motor would spin easily and not make any grinding noise if the pump is not pulling oil in to make pressure.

Is worth it to try changing the fluid? I think likely yes, it is. Besides draining the reservoir, you should also unhook all the rams (all are single acting I believe) and push the rods in to clear as much of the fluid out as you can. If not, the Myer fluid I would find a generic snowplow fluid that says it meets Myer requirements. If the pump suction has a screen, it should be checked and cleaned.

Do you have the Owner's manual for your unit? If not, I think you can download one at Myer Support. I think the manual calls for an annual post-season drain, flush, and fresh fill. I would do it pre-season to get rid of any moisture that accumulated over the summer. I would recommend keeping the hydraulic unit covered as much as possible. It is surprising how much water some will gather, for as tight as they appear.

I'm sorry this doesn't make any sense.

He says the motor is NOT running, which means it's either stalled or jammed, which means it's pulling in oil to make pressure.

Doesn't that mean the oil is NOT the problem, and changing it is a complete waste of time?

 

[Jim.ME]

I'm sorry this doesn't make any sense.

He says the motor is NOT running, which means it's either stalled or jammed, which means it's pulling in oil to make pressure.

Doesn't that mean the oil is NOT the problem, and changing it is a complete waste of time?

You are correct, and I am wrong, if the pump motor is not running when it happens. He said the pump motor appears to be stopped, going by not hearing/feeling any grinding. Maybe his test light will show the power to it is dropping out.

I won't say an oil change is a waste of time, especially if it sets outside uncovered all year. I have had to change a number due to water contamination. If it has been in service for a couple years under those conditions, I see it as good maintenance practice to change it.