MF 245 loader dilemma

[Chris S.]

Ok I need some help please! My 245 is paired with the 232 loader front drive hydraulic pump. This is setup with the flex shaft. I don't know how the shaft connects to the engine but I believe I just either sheared off a pin or spun the splines. Either way, the shaft is free spinning on the engine side where I can't see anything and I've got no loader functions..obviously.

How do I fix this?? The loader is on the ground. I would love to do away with the front pump and power the loader off the tractor but I thought I remembered somewhere reading that this is not possible on the 245.

I've seen similar massey's with a plate removed under the seat and lines coming from some sort of valve body. My tractor has the plate. I do not have any remotes on the tractor.

Questions:

How do I remove the flex shaft from the pump and engine to fix this problem?

Can the loader be powered from the tractor so I can do away with the front pump all together?

Photos attached of what I'm up against. Of course this failed in the middle of a project.

As always thank you for all of your input, advice, suggestions, etc!

 

[Jim.ME]

Ok I need some help please! My 245 is paired with the 232 loader front drive hydraulic pump. This is setup with the flex shaft. I don't know how the shaft connects to the engine but I believe I just either sheared off a pin or spun the splines. Either way, the shaft is free spinning on the engine side where I can't see anything and I've got no loader functions..obviously.

How do I fix this?? The loader is on the ground. I would love to do away with the front pump and power the loader off the tractor but I thought I remembered somewhere reading that this is not possible on the 245.

I've seen similar massey's with a plate removed under the seat and lines coming from some sort of valve body. My tractor has the plate. I do not have any remotes on the tractor.

Questions:

How do I remove the flex shaft from the pump and engine to fix this problem?

Can the loader be powered from the tractor so I can do away with the front pump all together?

Photos attached of what I'm up against. Of course this failed in the middle of a project.

As always thank you for all of your input, advice, suggestions, etc!

View attachment 69586

View attachment 69587

You remove the pump from the shaft then the shaft from the drive adapter on the crank pulley. The engine end of the shaft has left hand threads screwed into the drive adapter, the pump end is a splined coupling, if it is as shown in the parts book. The shaft appears to be solid, not flexible. There should be rubber mounting bushings on the bolts going into the crank pulley. The parts book shows the shaft as part number 1081251M91.

You can use the AGCO Parts books online to see what should be there. Below is a link to the 232 loader parts book. Using the index at the left of that page look at the third Hydraulic Pump Kits shown, page 128, which should be what was used on your 245.

232 loader parts book

The 245s had an auxiliary hydraulic pump kit that could be added for remotes, my 245 has it with 2 sets of remotes. My understanding is it is a separate pump and system in addition to the 3-point pump and system. The AUX pump is 10 gpm I believe and could run your loader, I believe. I don't know if the kit is available new, you might have to find a salvage yard that has a tractor with the kit. Below is a link to one of the 245 parts books. If your serial number is 9A349240 or after you would need the other 245 parts book. Look down the index to Auxiliary Hydraulics to get an idea of what is involved. If you have the 245 Service Manual, it explains both systems.

MF 245 (sn 0001-9A349239) parts book

Diesel Tech, or someone, who has installed an aux system may be along with some better insight.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Locating and installing all that will be more difficult, more work, and more money than fixing the shaft problem and keeping the front pump. If it were me. I would fix the shaft. And while it's apart, I would definitely replace the fan belt. Your tractor, your money, your choice.

 

[Jim.ME]

Locating and installing all that will be more difficult, more work, and more money than fixing the shaft problem and keeping the front pump. If it were me. I would fix the shaft. And while it's apart, I would definitely replace the fan belt. Your tractor, your money, your choice.

I agree, fix the front pump. I just thought I would give him the info to see what is involved. It is not just a simple pump change.

 

[Chris S.]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Very good information and I will be looking at the links. One of the main reasons I wanted to do away with the front pump was for easier loader removal. 2 quick couplers from the tractor and call it a day. But it sounds like keeping the front pump is the better option so that's what I'll be planning on doing.

While looking more into tonight's problem, I found another issue. I've been hearing a high pitched squeeling sound here and there coming from the front of the tractor. Haven't been able to pin point it until tonight.

I found that the squeal would go away or ease up when I would turn the steering wheel. I started to see forward and backward axle movement while steering. It looked like the axle was being pushed into the 3 bolts on the crankshaft pully. Then I saw a bunch of bearings wedged between the axle and crankshaft pully.

It looks like I blew the bearing apart for the axle pivot. I'm assuming there is a bearing in there located below the grease zerk that I've tried to grease that won't take anything...

So is the bearing blowing apart and my shaft breaking a coincidence or are the 2 related?

So now it looks like I'll be dropping the front end out of the tractor to get to that issue. I'm hoping to work on it some tomorrow if the rain holds off. Unfortunately my shop has a low ceiling and the rops won't fit through the door

 

[Jim.ME]

Thanks everyone for your replies! Very good information and I will be looking at the links. One of the main reasons I wanted to do away with the front pump was for easier loader removal. 2 quick couplers from the tractor and call it a day. But it sounds like keeping the front pump is the better option so that's what I'll be planning on doing.

While looking more into tonight's problem, I found another issue. I've been hearing a high pitched squeeling sound here and there coming from the front of the tractor. Haven't been able to pin point it until tonight.

I found that the squeal would go away or ease up when I would turn the steering wheel. I started to see forward and backward axle movement while steering. It looked like the axle was being pushed into the 3 bolts on the crankshaft pully. Then I saw a bunch of bearings wedged between the axle and crankshaft pully.

It looks like I blew the bearing apart for the axle pivot. I'm assuming there is a bearing in there located below the grease zerk that I've tried to grease that won't take anything...

So is the bearing blowing apart and my shaft breaking a coincidence or are the 2 related?

So now it looks like I'll be dropping the front end out of the tractor to get to that issue. I'm hoping to work on it some tomorrow if the rain holds off. Unfortunately my shop has a low ceiling and the rops won't fit through the door

Use the link to the parts book I gave you and look at the front axles to see which your axle is. You will see they use bushings, not bearings.

If the book I gave you a link to is not correct (that would be if your serial number is 9A349240 or after), click on the Parts Book button above the index. It will open the parts book search. enter 245 and give it a minute, the options of books with 245 in the titles will appear. The parts book for the later 245s is the 4th option down the list, when I do this.

 

[Chris S.]

Use the link to the parts book I gave you and look at the front axles to see which your axle is. You will see they use bushings, not bearings.

If the book I gave you a link to is not correct (that would be if your serial number is 9A349240 or after), click on the Parts Book button above the index. It will open the parts book search. enter 245 and give it a minute, the options of books with 245 in the titles will appear. The parts book for the later 245s is the 4th option down the list, when I do this.

Thanks Jim. I did look at the links you sent here this morning. I did see that it uses bushings not bearings. That was my initial thought until I saw what looked like ball bearings wedged in-between the axle and adapter plate. I found a replacement adapter plate and see exactly now how things go together. There are no bearings in that area so I'm not sure exactly what I'm seeing that looks like a ball bearing. I was looking at all of this in the dark last night with just my phone light. It's been raining so far all morning.

I do have a better understanding of what I'm up against now thanks to your links and explanation. I'll update once the rain stops and I can start messing around outside.

Thanks!

 

[Chris S.]

Use the link to the parts book I gave you and look at the front axles to see which your axle is. You will see they use bushings, not bearings.

If the book I gave you a link to is not correct (that would be if your serial number is 9A349240 or after), click on the Parts Book button above the index. It will open the parts book search. enter 245 and give it a minute, the options of books with 245 in the titles will appear. The parts book for the later 245s is the 4th option down the list, when I do this.

Jim- do you recall if there are to be set screws holding the shaft to the pump? I'm unable to get the pump to slide off of the shaft. I have 2 small holes on that end of the shaft. One for sure is threaded. I believe the other is as well. Neither hole has a screw in it. When I shine a light in either hole, I can't tell if I'm looking at a spline or if the previous owner used a roll pin or some other peice of metal to act as a set screw. With how far down into the hole I'm looking, I assume im looking at a spline and that the shaft is just seized on the splines.

I wanted to ask before I attempt to tap out a non existent roll pin, or whatever it may be, and risk messing up a spline. Do you recall a set screw going straight through the splines and threading into the opposite hole of the shaft? If that's the case, then I'm certain I'm looking at a make shift set screw and I'll try to tap it out.

I would assume each side once had a set screw and that I will need to spray some pb blaster down into those holes and let it sit overnight and lightly tap it with a hammer and screw driver to slide it off the pump. I don't recall seeing set screws on the parts diagram.

Thanks!

 

[Jim.ME]

Jim- do you recall if there are to be set screws holding the shaft to the pump? I'm unable to get the pump to slide off of the shaft. I have 2 small holes on that end of the shaft. One for sure is threaded. I believe the other is as well. Neither hole has a screw in it. When I shine a light in either hole, I can't tell if I'm looking at a spline or if the previous owner used a roll pin or some other peice of metal to act as a set screw. With how far down into the hole I'm looking, I assume im looking at a spline and that the shaft is just seized on the splines.

I wanted to ask before I attempt to tap out a non existent roll pin, or whatever it may be, and risk messing up a spline. Do you recall a set screw going straight through the splines and threading into the opposite hole of the shaft? If that's the case, then I'm certain I'm looking at a make shift set screw and I'll try to tap it out.

I would assume each side once had a set screw and that I will need to spray some pb blaster down into those holes and let it sit overnight and lightly tap it with a hammer and screw driver to slide it off the pump. I don't recall seeing set screws on the parts diagram.

Thanks!

I do not have a loader on my 245. In most cases the pump shaft spline just slides into the coupling spline allowing a bit of movement to prevent binding. The parts book does not show a roll pin or set screws used. I expect pump shaft is just stuck in the coupling spline.

 

[Chris S.]

I do not have a loader on my 245. In most cases the pump shaft spline just slides into the coupling spline allowing a bit of movement to prevent binding. The parts book does not show a roll pin or set screws used. I expect pump shaft is just stuck in the coupling spline.

Hi Jim, on Tuesday I successfully got the pump off of the shaft. You were correct, it was seized. I had to resort to heat. I first tried heating with Mapp and wasn't getting anywhere. I switch to my acetylene torch and with some tension on the pump it finally popped off.

I do believe my issue is the adapter plate on the crank broke in the center where the threads are. The threads are of course still threaded onto the shaft. With it still threaded, there isn't enough room to slide the shaft plus the threaded section out of the axle hole. The tractor needs a new radiator anyway so I'll just separate the tractor behind the axle and pull the shaft out from the back.

Shouldn't be too difficult. Famous last words lol

 

[damn1981]

The old famous bushing walked out of front support truck ah the memories unbolt coupler don't believe shaft will fit thru pin if memory serves me right but it's a long one so would be easier to pull bolts after anyway

 

[Chris S.]

The old famous bushing walked out of front support truck ah the memories unbolt coupler don't believe shaft will fit thru pin if memory serves me right but it's a long one so would be easier to pull bolts after anyway

I never even gave that a thought. It does look like the bushing walked out. Interesting. I'm hoping to be able to get the tractor pulled into the shop in the next day or two