More 8 volt battery

[grandpa Love]

The guy that dropped the cub off told me he bought it from an elderly neighbor who hadn't used it in several years. He also said it had electronic ignition...... we have never fooled with EI. I'm assuming you can test it? I mean points are easy, if your test light blinks while touching the stud on the distributor your points are sparking. What about EI? AND....I see 6 volt and 12 volt kits...... which one goes with an 8 volt battery??? This poor cub. Maybe I should drag it in the barn, dive in , stopping asking questions, and just fix it

 

[JOCCO]

Grandpa, I would check the battery cables and ground on that make sure they are not all green and rotted away. Now on the EI it is probably some sort of pertronix set up there was 6 and 12volt and they work real good. They can generally be put back to points real easy, but I would keep it myself. You might get a number off the unit in the distributor and find out if it is 6 or 12v. Having that 8 volt is like an odd duck with square feet! One reason they used them years ago was to get more power for headlights on antique cars. Which is not an issue for what you are doing.

 

[wore out]

The guy that dropped the cub off told me he bought it from an elderly neighbor who hadn't used it in several years. He also said it had electronic ignition...... we have never fooled with EI. I'm assuming you can test it? I mean points are easy, if your test light blinks while touching the stud on the distributor your points are sparking. What about EI? AND....I see 6 volt and 12 volt kits...... which one goes with an 8 volt battery??? This poor cub. Maybe I should drag it in the barn, dive in , stopping asking questions, and just fix it

While I was never a proponent of 8 Volt batteries they used be quite common.

"Back in the day" there were lots of competent mechanics and auto electrical shops around that could little tweak the voltage regulator a little and the setup would work very well for years.

As to E.I., within reason it's not so much the voltage that will "kill" a module, but the added primary current that goes along with it. With a little added primary resistance to keep primary coil current at 4 Amps or under the module will probably operate quite "happily" for a long time.

 

[timcasbolt]

I"m not a wealthy man, and cost often drives my decisions. I look for value over price. Switching an engine over to 8 volt is a stop gap solution that doesn't make long term sense. The battery itself is more expensive than a 12 volt, and not as readily available. The generator is obsolete, and fewer people every year are competent to service it. I understand the desire to keep something original, but if this isn't a show piece, my decision would be easy.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The guy that dropped the cub off told me he bought it from an elderly neighbor who hadn't used it in several years. He also said it had electronic ignition...... we have never fooled with EI. I'm assuming you can test it? I mean points are easy, if your test light blinks while touching the stud on the distributor your points are sparking. What about EI? AND....I see 6 volt and 12 volt kits...... which one goes with an 8 volt battery??? This poor cub. Maybe I should drag it in the barn, dive in , stopping asking questions, and just fix it

Seems to me testing an EI would be just as easy as testing any other ignition: Pull a plug wire off, grab a spare plug (or pull one out of the head), stuff it in the boot, lay it up against the engine block somewhere, and give the engine a spin.

$5 says is that absolutely nothing on this tractor was adjusted or changed for 8 Volt operation, except the battery. Everything is 6 Volt. The 8 Volt battery was added to compensate for bad connections and/or a weak starter. Probably won't take much to get it back to being happy with a 6 Volt batter.

 

[John T]

Grandpa, I have no specs or data on the EI unit but my best pure GUESS is the necessary voltage (low current requirements) as far as bias/control isn't extremely critical so 8 volts on a 6 volt unit likely wont harm it. What IS CRITICAL is the current rating it can handle and switch on and off that's likely in the 4 or so to 6 amps and if the EI can handle the coils on and off max current it should still work fine regardless.

As far as troubleshooting it simply replaces the mechanical points switch and conducts current (like closed points) and then interrupts current flow (like when points open) and the coil fire the plugs. With IGN ON just as closed points conducts coil current the coils output is grounded and conducting and momentarily when its time to fire the EI switch opens (like points opening) and the coil fires. They are prone to damage if polarity is reversed or their max current rating is exceeded. SAME as with points a test lamp on the coils output (to distributor) if the engine is slowly cranked over should FLASH ON (points/EI switch) OPEN but go OFF (points/EI switch) closed.

Indeed just drag it in and fix it. Im sure you can understanding how the EI just replaces mechanical points switching using a solid state device, Its ON CLOSED (conducts coil current) or OFF OPEN (momentarily interrupting coil current flow). It uses battery voltage to bias the electronics then is an on off coil current switch........

Hope this helps, you can do this let us know what happens

PS back to the old 8 volt questions, over many years I saw 8 volt batteries work and charge (NOT any super high rate) with little to no mods (more likely if a manual Low High Charge was used instead of a VR) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Seen them work with a VR adjusted,,,,,,,,,,,,Seen some that NEVER charged properly lol.

John T

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Seems to me testing an EI would be just as easy as testing any other ignition: Pull a plug wire off, grab a spare plug (or pull one out of the head), stuff it in the boot, lay it up against the engine block somewhere, and give the engine a spin.

$5 says is that absolutely nothing on this tractor was adjusted or changed for 8 Volt operation, except the battery. Everything is 6 Volt. The 8 Volt battery was added to compensate for bad connections and/or a weak starter. Probably won't take much to get it back to being happy with a 6 Volt batter.

Or you could hold onto the spark plug wire while your wife cranks the engine.
I recommend using your right hand so spark is kept away from your heart. LOL

Why not pull the distributor and go back to the old school way of making a spark, points, condenser, ballast and coil?
I'm guessing you have many spare parts on the shelf.

 

[crsutton81]

The guy that dropped the cub off told me he bought it from an elderly neighbor who hadn't used it in several years. He also said it had electronic ignition...... we have never fooled with EI. I'm assuming you can test it? I mean points are easy, if your test light blinks while touching the stud on the distributor your points are sparking. What about EI? AND....I see 6 volt and 12 volt kits...... which one goes with an 8 volt battery??? This poor cub. Maybe I should drag it in the barn, dive in , stopping asking questions, and just fix it

Since it has the stop gap measures of putting an 8v battery in it, I'm assuming it is still positive ground with a generator. If this is the case, then technically an 8v battery and EI will work for awhile but more than likely will shorten the 6v EI kit life that is probably in it. To test it, take a test light while the engine is spinning over and touch it onto the + side of the coil stud, which should be feeding into the module inside the distributor. It should flash as points would do if it's working. The negative stud on the coil will be the switched power wire supplying 6 or 8v to run the coil and probably the EI unit if wired like I do them. Everyone has they're preferences on points, EI kits etc, but after changing several Farmalls over to 12v and adding electronic ignition, they start really easily, seem to have more power, and run smoother especially if the distributor shaft is starting to wear and keeping points constantly gapped correctly is a challenge. Yes 12v is overkill to start a Cub, but the change over kills the problem I always had of something always wrong to have a no charging issue. About 2 6 or 8v battery replacements now from no charging issues will pay for a conversion and lessen a stint at a psychic ward.

 

[Janicholson]

Grandpa, I have no specs or data on the EI unit but my best pure GUESS is the necessary voltage (low current requirements) as far as bias/control isn't extremely critical so 8 volts on a 6 volt unit likely wont harm it. What IS CRITICAL is the current rating it can handle and switch on and off that's likely in the 4 or so to 6 amps and if the EI can handle the coils on and off max current it should still work fine regardless.

As far as troubleshooting it simply replaces the mechanical points switch and conducts current (like closed points) and then interrupts current flow (like when points open) and the coil fire the plugs. With IGN ON just as closed points conducts coil current the coils output is grounded and conducting and momentarily when its time to fire the EI switch opens (like points opening) and the coil fires. They are prone to damage if polarity is reversed or their max current rating is exceeded. SAME as with points a test lamp on the coils output (to distributor) if the engine is slowly cranked over should FLASH ON (points/EI switch) OPEN but go OFF (points/EI switch) closed.

Indeed just drag it in and fix it. Im sure you can understanding how the EI just replaces mechanical points switching using a solid state device, Its ON CLOSED (conducts coil current) or OFF OPEN (momentarily interrupting coil current flow). It uses battery voltage to bias the electronics then is an on off coil current switch........

Hope this helps, you can do this let us know what happens

PS back to the old 8 volt questions, over many years I saw 8 volt batteries work and charge (NOT any super high rate) with little to no mods (more likely if a manual Low High Charge was used instead of a VR) ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Seen them work with a VR adjusted,,,,,,,,,,,,Seen some that NEVER charged properly lol.

John T

If one took two ballast resistors and tied them in parallel the combination would lower the voltage enough I think. Jim

 

[John T]

The EI must be the correct polarity to match the tractor or it would have been toast long ago. If it’s been operating on 8 volts a longgggggg time I don’t see that as causing damage to the bias and control voltage portion of the EI as it’s not as critical as the switches current rating HOWEVER the 8 volts is indeed causing coil curent to increase which could actually be slowly overheating or damaging the solid state switch ???? Hard to say from here absent any specs or max current ratings so it’s only a guess ???? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it perhaps lol

I like Jim’s idea of using resistors to lower the voltage and current to bring the switch and coil back to 6 volts but one would need voltsge and current readings to compute the necessary size of any voltage dropping ballast resistors or else trial and error ???

I have no problem with one’s choice to use EI and 8 volts May or may not be causing harm ??? while my post above describes simple easy checks using a test lamp or voltmeter same as if it were points to check operation and/or check the coil for firing as the engine is cranked easy peasey

You got this keep us posted

John T