Summer Diesel at 0

[rusty6]

Just out of curiosity I checked the diesel fuel in my big tank filter to see if it would flow. Its summer diesel but bought late in the season so it likely was not as heavy as mid summer diesel. True enough the weather had warmed up considerably compared to the past 9 days but I was surprised just how well this fuel flowed at just a few degrees below zero (F). I recorded a few minutes of video for future reference.

diesel test

 

[Scott 730]

Pure Diesel, I presume? Not the bio stuff mandated down here?

 

[rusty6]

Pure Diesel, I presume? Not the bio stuff mandated down here?

I don't hear much about bio diesel here so I can't comment for sure as to what, if any percentage bio it may be.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

So we ended up buying this 50 dollar tool that looks like a glass fishing bobber from caterpillar a couple years ago to measure fuel specific gravity because we had some trouble with gelling a couple years in a row same fuel guy. I used to use this when I worked up there to check if someone put gas in the diesel of rental equipment if I had a hunch. Bear in mind this is not completely scientific and your fuel delivery guys will all tell you something different and that I was wasting my time but I had to try something.

You are correct summer fuel is heavier. It reads 33 for an average bobber doesn't sink much as the scale is low at the bottom high at the top. "30 percent number 1" reads 35. "70 percent number 1" reads 38 and is around here what to shoot for. Kerosene 41 for an average, gasoline sinks all the way bobber under the liquid. What I've found over the past couple years is that that number needs to read 37 to get through the 20 below around here with the skid loader. My uncle 3 days ago gelled up. His read 35 he bought it just before Christmas but half a state south. It might not seem like much and the fuel guy will tell you the specific gravity means nothing changes with every load which ok sure don't really care that just means the blend they are feeding him out of the pipe is different but if it doesn't hit 37 38 warmed up in the shop to 60 degrees we mix it so it does. This year has gone so much smoother through the cold snap. Diesel is so regional they mix for the current temperatures. I don't know how many trucks we see on I-35 headed north that are stopped with too much number 2. It took 2 years of measuring what the diesel at the coop had. What we had in everything, what gelled and what didn't to get to this point. No amount of power service or any other additive helps below 0. You need that bit of hotter actual #1 or essentially Kerosene as inefficient and hard on stuff as it is to get that number up. You would also be surprised what flows out of a diesel storage tank and will plug a filter too. All depends on what the fuel guy gave you and I don't take that chance anymore. Rant over.

 

[Texasmark]

Last winter it went down to -4F here in N. Tx. My #2 diesel clogged up the filter on the outlet hose of the storage tank. Never been that cold here in Tx. my entire life so it was a big surprise. Next time at the farm store I came across a Power Services product I had never used and it was fuel deicer. In it went and so far we have only gotten down to 8F this year and stayed below freezing for a week but no problem with fuel gelling. So I am now using 3 PS products and have and have had zero problems with my 6 diesels. Well worth the peace of mind I get with my snake oils.

 

[johnofnewhaven]

Just out of curiosity I checked the diesel fuel in my big tank filter to see if it would flow. Its summer diesel but bought late in the season so it likely was not as heavy as mid summer diesel. True enough the weather had warmed up considerably compared to the past 9 days but I was surprised just how well this fuel flowed at just a few degrees below zero (F). I recorded a few minutes of video for future reference.

diesel test

rusty6 I have a question. How the heck did you get that big tank in that little building?

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Last winter it went down to -4F here in N. Tx. My #2 diesel clogged up the filter on the outlet hose of the storage tank. Never been that cold here in Tx. my entire life so it was a big surprise. Next time at the farm store I came across a Power Services product I had never used and it was fuel deicer. In it went and so far we have only gotten down to 8F this year and stayed below freezing for a week but no problem with fuel gelling. So I am now using 3 PS products and have and have had zero problems with my 6 diesels. Well worth the peace of mind I get with my snake oils.

Not arguing one bit about power services value! We have it in everything we want a chance of moving on a warm 20 degree day in the winter but is stored summer fuel in it. But in my experience 0 is the point of no return so to speak. After that your fuel has to be blended right or trouble will ensue. And since here we can count on that for about a month straight at least...

 

[rustred]

i have been using summer diesel my 560 right up until this minus 30 and 40 cold snap. i bought 5 gallons of winter diesel and dumped it into the tractor tank to dilute it. had the tractor running at minus 30 and no problem at all running the tractor. just the hydraulics' were pretty slow.

 

[rustred]

rusty6 I have a question. How the heck did you get that big tank in that little building?

a lot of them tanks are on skids. you can haul them around on a truck also. so i presume it was just pushed in , the boss will say for sure.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

You must have a more reliable fuel supplier than I. I knew what that used to be like.

 

[rusty6]

rusty6 I have a question. How the heck did you get that big tank in that little building?

My dad and I built that shed around the tank back about 1981. All the walls and roof are recycled lumber from an old barn. Some day I need to figure out how many thousand gallons I have pumped through that since 1982.

 

[rusty6]

You must have a more reliable fuel supplier than I. I knew what that used to be like.

My brother has been delivering fuel for the Co-op for about 40 years now and I've never had a complaint about their service or fuel.

 

[rusty6]

i have been using summer diesel my 560 right up until this minus 30 and 40 cold snap. i bought 5 gallons of winter diesel and dumped it into the tractor tank to dilute it. had the tractor running at minus 30 and no problem at all running the tractor. just the hydraulics' were pretty slow.

What I am burning right now is actually summer fuel that I have treated with one of the various fuel thinners that are on the market now. All three diesels that I use in winter get the same treatment. I also have a hundred gallons of "real" winter diesel in the truck skid tank to get me through the rest of the winter.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

Your brother sounds like the guy I had before not a lick of trouble! But what’s he really got coming out the pipe? He doesn’t really know. He didn’t mix it. The people pushing it up the pipe are the only ones who have some idea. Most of the neighbors don’t have cows anymore so a lot of them don’t get red fuel that’s winterized at least not in any quantity. For a bit we debated on getting road diesel because we never have trouble in the truck. Did my guy just get changed at the same time as a regime change at the fuel coop or the supplier and now someone different is operating the valves to mix it? I tried 2 different coops. One tried 3 times the first year. His #1 wasn’t what he thought it was or at least said it was. I just make sure now. Piece of mind is worth the 50 bucks to me. Pretty easy to go fishing with the glass bobber vs drag everything gelled up into the shop so you can feed the cows. It’s just fun when the uncle brought the truck in with the plugged filter. Bet it doesn’t read 37. Nope 35. Park it inside till Wednesday then you will be fine.

 

[rusty6]

Your brother sounds like the guy I had before not a lick of trouble! But what’s he really got coming out the pipe? He doesn’t really know. He didn’t mix it. The people pushing it up the pipe are the only ones who have some idea. Most of the neighbors don’t have cows anymore so a lot of them don’t get red fuel that’s winterized at least not in any quantity. For a bit we debated on getting road diesel because we never have trouble in the truck. Did my guy just get changed at the same time as a regime change at the fuel coop or the supplier and now someone different is operating the valves to mix it? I tried 2 different coops. One tried 3 times the first year. His #1 wasn’t what he thought it was or at least said it was. I just make sure now. Piece of mind is worth the 50 bucks to me. Pretty easy to go fishing with the glass bobber vs drag everything gelled up into the shop so you can feed the cows. It’s just fun when the uncle brought the truck in with the plugged filter. Bet it doesn’t read 37. Nope 35. Park it inside till Wednesday then you will be fine.

I've never heard of that method of analyzing fuel probably because it is not a problem here. Maybe living a couple of hours away from the refinery is a difference for me. They know their customers are going to complain or switch suppliers if fuel problems show up.

 

[johnofnewhaven]

My dad and I built that shed around the tank back about 1981. All the walls and roof are recycled lumber from an old barn. Some day I need to figure out how many thousand gallons I have pumped through that since 1982.

I kinda thought maybe you built it around the tank. Door looked smaller than the tank.

 

[rustred]

what i was told by the dealer long long time ago , was the only difference between summer and winter fuel is they remove some wax in the summer fuel, making it winter fuel. its plain to see the wax in jelled summer fuel at 40 below just by the way it flows out the nozzle, kinda dribbles out, or put some in a pail. there is no different additives they use for that. its done at the refinery. and the was is the injector and pump lube and using winter fuel in the summer you will burn through a bit more fuel,and less lube. its not that big of a problem cause the tractor is warm and the fuel is being circulated through the injectors back to tank, depending on the actual temp. of course.

 

[john in la]

While we never had to mix winter fuel down here where I live when I hauled fuel for Pilot they sent us a chart every fall.
It gave a temperature that you would match to the weather forecast for the next 2 days.
Next to the temperature it gave a percentage of number 1 diesel to mix in the number 2 diesel.
No snake oil or anything other than a mixture of #1 and #2 diesel based on what temperature it was.

Where I work now we get 100 percent #2 all year long in our area because we are so far south.
If you are a driver that goes out of our area we have 2.5 gallon jugs of snake oil to mix in your tank when you fuel at our onsite pumps.

 

[Fixingfarmer]

At tech school they showed us a picture of the refining column how based on where in the column it is that’s what’s coming out.
So stacked vertical and skipping a couple things we don’t care about much each has a feeder pipe more or less out the column

Propane/butane
Gasoline
Naphtha
Kerosene
Diesel
Heavy oils
Asphalt and nasty stuff at the bottom.

Winter fuel is what’s coming out the kerosene pipe location mixed with diesel pipe at your percentage. 70 percent #1 is actually 70 percent what comes out the kerosene pipe 30 percent #2 diesel. And it makes sense if the specific gravity is 41 for kerosene and #2 average is around 33...38 being 70 percent is right on. God I wish I lived in Florida and I’m glad I don’t live the last state to the north!

 

[rusty6]

Winter fuel is what’s coming out the kerosene pipe location mixed with diesel pipe at your percentage. 70 percent #1 is actually 70 percent what comes out the kerosene pipe 30 percent #2 diesel. And it makes sense if the specific gravity is 41 for kerosene and #2 average is around 33...38 being 70 percent is right on. God I wish I lived in Florida and I’m glad I don’t live the last state to the north!

Well whatever they are doing here in Sask. it is working. In over 40 years of running diesels in winter I've never had a fuel problem.