'52 8N with manifold leak no studs just bolts

[douglloyd]

Hi all,

My '52 8N is starting to leak at the engine manifold near the #4 cylinder. Have not pulled this yet, hopefully it's just a gasket blowout, but we'll see. I have read most of the prior posts about reworking these surfaces if pitted.

The wrinkle here is that the prior owner bolted this manifold up to the engine - no studs, no brass nuts or washers, just bolts. Hoping that he did not retap the holes to a larger size - again, we will have to see.

My question is - any suggestions on how to ease these bolts out without snapping them off? For rusty hardware I normally use a penetrant with some pounding, let it set awhile, then carefully and gradually work the bolt back and forth with a socket until it starts to turn. Not wild about using a torch for heat with the engine still in the tractor.

thanks,
Doug

 

[Dan]

Not sure anything will help you right now as the manifold gasket will keep penetrating oil from getting to the threads. I have a lot of experience drilling out snapped bolts from N series tractors, I say just go for it. Hopefully if the bolt does snap, it has a stub sticking out that you can weld a nut on. The heat from the welder usually allows it to ease out.

Obviously, go back with studs and brass nuts for the reinstall.

Good luck

 

[HFJ]

Hi all,

My '52 8N is starting to leak at the engine manifold near the #4 cylinder. Have not pulled this yet, hopefully it's just a gasket blowout, but we'll see. I have read most of the prior posts about reworking these surfaces if pitted.

The wrinkle here is that the prior owner bolted this manifold up to the engine - no studs, no brass nuts or washers, just bolts. Hoping that he did not retap the holes to a larger size - again, we will have to see.

My question is - any suggestions on how to ease these bolts out without snapping them off? For rusty hardware I normally use a penetrant with some pounding, let it set awhile, then carefully and gradually work the bolt back and forth with a socket until it starts to turn. Not wild about using a torch for heat with the engine still in the tractor.

thanks,
Doug

i doubt you could get an impact socket in there, as tight as things are there, but what about an impact wrench set low with a conventional socket?

working on that manifold is pretty much guaranteed to provoke language from me which is unfit for children, not to mention some adults.

and + 1 to Dan's "obviously."

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Hi all,

My '52 8N is starting to leak at the engine manifold near the #4 cylinder. Have not pulled this yet, hopefully it's just a gasket blowout, but we'll see. I have read most of the prior posts about reworking these surfaces if pitted.

The wrinkle here is that the prior owner bolted this manifold up to the engine - no studs, no brass nuts or washers, just bolts. Hoping that he did not retap the holes to a larger size - again, we will have to see.

My question is - any suggestions on how to ease these bolts out without snapping them off? For rusty hardware I normally use a penetrant with some pounding, let it set awhile, then carefully and gradually work the bolt back and forth with a socket until it starts to turn. Not wild about using a torch for heat with the engine still in the tractor.

thanks,
Doug

HiYa Doug. Welcome aboard the YT N-BOARD. You need a new MANIFOLD (9N-9425) and 3-PC gasket set for starters. #4 PORT (nearest dash) gets the hottest as that is at the downward outlet to muffler. The cast iron manifold will wear a groove/witness track on the mating surface and no new gasket will fix that. I highly advise to invest in the correct parts too. Get new studs, the 7/16 Brass Hex Nuts and Lockwashers (33816-KIT). OEM holes on engine are 7/16-14. DO NOT TRY TO RETAP the stud thread holes if you are not sure and only if needed, but likely not needed. You may or may not already know this but, FWIW & FYI, STUDS are designed with a NC (National Course) end and a NF (National Fine) thread end. The FORD Engine stud holes are 7/16-14 UNC. CAST IRON threads are all NC, it is the nature of the beast. If you insert the wrong end, 7/16-20 UNF you will muck up the threads in the block holes and likely the studs as well. STUDS are hardened steel and tough -cast iron is more brittle and less forgiving. Don't screw them up. The MANIFOLD Replacement job isn't difficult, time consuming mostly as many other parts must be removed first; the Carb, Air Cleaner, Generator or Alternator, Muffler, Carb/Throttle Linkages, and all clamps, are all required and make it easier. 1st place a tub underneath the radiator and loosen the petcock drain valve to drain some coolant out. Don't wear your church clothes. Next, spray some PB BLASTER on/in bolts to loosen. Do it a few times and wait an hour or three between hits if stubborn. Use a 6-PT Socket to loosen and never use pliers, vise grips, or channel locks on a fastener. The stud holes encroach into the block water jacket and some coolant will escape at removal and it’s why you drain some at the first step. Remove any old gasket material and debris on block and clean with mineral spirits. Air-blow out holes in the block. Use a dab of ANTI-SEIZE in stud block ends and insert the new studs. DON’T OVER TIGHTEN and only go up a bit short of the shoulder. Never force stud into block all the way – it’ll bottom out the threads and booger up the top of hole. Now you can use your pliers to insert the studs with grabbing onto the shoulder and never the threads. Use a new manifold; never try to reuse the old one, not worth the hassle and you don’t want to do this job again in 2/3 months do you? New unit should include the 3-PC Paper Gaket kit. One will mount on the Carb Flange face and the other two on the block to manifold surface. One goes on each side, never on the same side. You do not need to put any Permatex on the parts. The gaskets will stay in place on the studs. Mount manifold on block working from inside to outside with brass nuts. Hand tightening at first as you may need to keep a bit loose in order to maneuver other parts at reassembly. Final tightening/torque will be done at last step. Reassemble all other parts as removed. The GEN, CARB, MUFFLER, and AIR CLEANER are all ready to reinstall. Visually check setup before start up test. 7/16 Brass Hex Nut torque is 27 ft/lbs but many do not know how to properly set torque so leave for another step article.

MANIFOLD STUD:
https://www just 8ns com/88403-S-Years-1939-52-Manifold-Stud-716-14-716-20-x-1-34

To get to LINK: Delete spaces in url addy add a DOT (.com) before com.

Your Mileage May Vary,

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[douglloyd]

Hi all,
Got the bolts out without snapping anything. No heat, lots of AT fluid, Liquid wrench and PB Blaster, beat on the bolt heads with a blunt punch and sledge, then just tickled them back & forth with a 1/2" six point 5/8" socket. I like using a slider bar to keep the torque centered.
Parts are on order, but I still have a couple of questions.
thanks,
Doug

 

[douglloyd]

I had a manifold in my parts boxes, but it doesn't look anything like what I took off. Which one should I use? Also, I spoke with Curt at YT, and they are out of stock on their upper grade manifold, #183860.

 

[douglloyd]

Here is what I found as far as pitting. Might need more cleaning up. I've scraped the oil and gunk (did not see any liquid gasket material) then used carb cleaner and steel wool.

 

[Dan]

Great job getting those bolts out without snapping them! Block pitting looks better than most I have seen. Might consider skimming the pits with JB Weld and sanding flush to fill them in. Overall I would say you are in good shape.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Here is what I found as far as pitting. Might need more cleaning up. I've scraped the oil and gunk (did not see any liquid gasket material) then used carb cleaner and steel wool.

I would put a new manifold on it and move on with life. That is no grantee but its the best you can do. I found a flat fender brace laying on a work table this post reminded me of what it came off of. I replaced the exhaust manifold gaskets on my F350 with a 390 a few weeks ago. That it a nightmare job it has AC you need to take the fender wells out BUT the inner fender supports the hood and fenders. It had gaskets like on a N a pizz poor attempt to seal a exhaust manifold. I went back with metal gaskets the way it should be, I wish there was a upgrade gasket for a N that used metal for the exhaust ports.

 

[FWB in SK]

Get a small tube of muffler cement. Put lightly on gasket. Done many times with good results...

 

[douglloyd]

With the 'better grade' manifold currently unavailable from YT, I'm leaning towards reusing the same one I took off. I have new gaskets on the way, along with a set or two of studs/brass bolts and washers.
I did some web research on how hot exhaust manifolds can get, and read some YT posts about glowing manifolds at night. I kinda like the extra area on this manifold - it ought to be good for better heat transfer. Also it give me a LOT more surface area for a larger gasket than the stock gasket - measures out about 8" x 1 & 3/4" for each side.
Has anybody used sheet copper for hi-temp gaskets before? I don't mind fabbing up a set as a test.
See pix for closeups.

 

[deanostoybox]

Has anybody used sheet copper for hi-temp gaskets before? I don't mind fabbing up a set as a test.

Yes. 20mil copper sheet. Annealed, hammered out, then annealed again before installation. On my 52. Works well.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

With the 'better grade' manifold currently unavailable from YT, I'm leaning towards reusing the same one I took off. I have new gaskets on the way, along with a set or two of studs/brass bolts and washers.
I did some web research on how hot exhaust manifolds can get, and read some YT posts about glowing manifolds at night. I kinda like the extra area on this manifold - it ought to be good for better heat transfer. Also it give me a LOT more surface area for a larger gasket than the stock gasket - measures out about 8" x 1 & 3/4" for each side.
Has anybody used sheet copper for hi-temp gaskets before? I don't mind fabbing up a set as a test.
See pix for closeups.

Better Grade? Who says so? ALL are made in Cheena now....but, different suppliers there can be hacks so it matters where you buy from. These places use clones of clones of clones to make their stuff.

Your Mileage May Vary,
Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Hi all,

My '52 8N is starting to leak at the engine manifold near the #4 cylinder. Have not pulled this yet, hopefully it's just a gasket blowout, but we'll see. I have read most of the prior posts about reworking these surfaces if pitted.

The wrinkle here is that the prior owner bolted this manifold up to the engine - no studs, no brass nuts or washers, just bolts. Hoping that he did not retap the holes to a larger size - again, we will have to see.

My question is - any suggestions on how to ease these bolts out without snapping them off? For rusty hardware I normally use a penetrant with some pounding, let it set awhile, then carefully and gradually work the bolt back and forth with a socket until it starts to turn. Not wild about using a torch for heat with the engine still in the tractor.

thanks,
Doug

An Easy-Out may do the job but the risk of boogering up the head threads are high if trying to use a basic hand drill. A good machine shop I'd advise to use and might have a tap burner that'll work best.

Your Mileage May Vary,
Tim Daley (MI)

 

[wore out]

Here is what I found as far as pitting. Might need more cleaning up. I've scraped the oil and gunk (did not see any liquid gasket material) then used carb cleaner and steel wool.

An automotive machine shop (if there's one left in you area) can surface grind your old manifold, making it as good as new.

 

[douglloyd]

Hi all,
As I noted above, the prior owner used bolts to mount this manifold. They are out now and the threads seem OK. The photos I sent show minimal pitting on either surface of the head and manifold. Machine shops are an extinct breed, even here in east TN. I have the correct studs and brass nuts on order along with the stock gasket.
What I'm likely to do (when these parts finally show up) is make up a sheet copper gasket and put the old manifold back on using the correct studs and brass hardware. Per instructions, I'll run these nuts up close to spec, then test run and check for leaks. If it passes, after things cool off I'll torque them to 27lbs, then try to get in the habit of checking this regularly afterwards.
thanks,
Doug