6 volt cub issues

[grandpa Love]

Picked up another Cub, unlike most of them that we buy this one has a complete and decent looking 6 volt system. Most cubs we buy are missing wiring and don't have a generator or alternator.Hope to keep it that way. Tractor cranks right up and runs.It's not charging.Here's where I'm at. Unhooked the generator belt, ran a jumper wire to generator and it turns. Pull the ignition switch and the amp gauge barely moved to discharge. Start the tractor and needle moves back to center. Tried 2 different regulators, no difference. 3 different gauges,no difference.Ran all new wires, cleaned all connections, no difference. With the belt off I could push one contact in regulator down and generator would run..... What what am I missing? Battery fully charged, it cranks tractor as fast as any 12 volt Cub I own.

 

[wh]

Sounds like maybe generator has a field problem. It is problems like this that get the 6v systems switched to alternators. We fought with one of the hs here for over a year trying to get it charging correctly. Even had a great starter generator shop check it. Finally went 12 v and never looked back. Ever since then switched them all over as the batteries went dead.

 

[Jim Becker]

Early cut-out system or later regulator system? Are you sure it isn't working? If it wasn't working, the charge wouldn't come up at all when it starts. Check voltage at the battery with it off and again started and rev'ed up most of the way. If it increases, it is charging. With a fully charged battery, the charge rate should be very low.

Wh makes a good point. A bad field can make them sort-of almost charge. You only did half of the motoring over test. You need to (belt off of course) jumper voltage to the A terminal, then check if it motors over a two different speeds depending on whether the F terminal is grounded. If no difference, you have a problem with the field.

 

[teddy52food]

Try grounding the field . It should put out full charge. if that works, make sure the regulator is grounded. Let me know.

 

[MARK ROBKE]

Have you had to charge the battery or jump it to start it? Have you had a voltmeter on the battery to see if it is actually not charging? The gauge may be stuck to where it won't show charge. I replaced my 6v 300 utility gauge this spring with a gauge from here.(YT) It was stuck for a long time-would show discharge but not charge. Mark.

 

[rustred]

check the battery voltage when it running to see whats happening. without that check ur in the dark. with the battery full charged the gauge will not move a whole lot. plus they were a 15 ampere guage i believe so the needle dont move a whole lot. put a volt meter on battery when its running to see whats happening.

 

[redforlife]

First thing first is, find out for sure what kind of original 6v system you have. Cut out, or regulator.

If you replaced the regulator, what did the old one you took off look like? A cut out box looks much like a regulator. About the only difference is, the cut out will only have one set of contact points inside. A regulator will have two or three sets of points inside the box. About the only way to tell for sure, just by looking at the box.

A cut out system uses the same generator as the regulator. But it's a different cookie when dealing with a cut out.

A voltage regulator works on its own, independently. But the cut out requires operator to set the high or low of the charging. This is done at the light switch. A cut out requires a 4 position light switch. Settings are Low, High, Dim, and Bright. Generator being on high charge in all settings except for the low charge setting. For the system to charge at all, the lid to the ampe box has to be adequately grounded (bad ground there is common ailment). And of course, all elements are in working order.

I won't explain the regulator system. I think you understand that part. If that's what you have.
But you need to know what you have before going any further/doing anything.

 

[grandpa Love]

Little more information. Using a meter the battery shows no change with tractor running or not. Shows just over 6 volts. It's definitely a regulator. 2 sets of contacts in it. Have tried 3 different ones. Have cleaned the contact points. If I'm reading correctly I need to ground the other terminal in generator when it's ' motoring ' and see if it goes faster?

 

[John T]

Sorry for your problems, when I was a used tractor dealer buying a ton of old tractors MOST WERENT CHARGING grrrrrrrrrrrr so I had plenty of experience fixing the darn old things lol

If you work through my Charging Troubleshooting linked below it can help find the problem (tell if its a Generator or other problem see Para, 5 and Motor Test Para 8) using simple tools before throwing parts at it.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=2060825

Best wishes good luck

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting

 

[grandpa Love]

John T .... Couple folks on a Farmall Facebook group actually posted a link to your trouble shooting guide! And as I was drinking coffee this morning I found years worth of information on YT from you. One thing I'm wondering, generator is bolted on the tractor, belt and wires off. I ran a wire to the A terminal and generator runs. I read something about grounding the F terminal?? Then unhooking that and generator speeds up?

 

[grandpa Love]

Another thing..... My understanding, which may be flawed, is that with everything hooked up, when I pull the ignition switch this contact should close? It doesn't. But with wires hooked up and belt off I can push it closed and generator will run..... New wires, several different amp gauges, tractor will crank and run, just not charge.

I cleaned the contact points.....

 

[John T]

Good morning, your new good questions are answered in my Troubleshooting Procedure in Paragraphs 5 and 8, but here is a brief summary FYI..

1) One thing I'm wondering, generator is bolted on the tractor, belt and wires off. I ran a wire to the A terminal and generator runs.

If a genny spins like a DC Motor (that's what it is) when you apply voltage to the ARM post with the case grounded and it runs, that tells me the armature and brushes are in at least decent condition.

2) I read something about grounding the F terminal?? Then unhooking that and generator speeds up?

While doing step 1 above if the FLD terminal is grounded it should slow down, but if not it speeds up.......That tells me the Field windings are intact and functioning.

OFTEN IF IT PASSES BOTH THOSE TESTS the genny itself is probably okay (at least decent) and it will charge UNLESS there are other problems such as VR or wiring etc !!!!!!!!!

John T

 

[John T]

1) when I pull the ignition switch this contact should close? It doesn't.

Just turning the ignition switch on puts a small load like 3/4 amps (to coil) if a battery ignition but that doesnt normally cause the VR contacts to close. The VR's cutout relay contacts SHOULD CLOSE when genny produces adequate voltage but open otherwise and if tractor is shut down to prevent battery discharge..

2) But with wires hooked up and belt off I can push it closed and generator will run..

Pushing that VR contact down may ??? simply apply battery voltage to the gennys ARM post (by closing the cutout relay) therefor causing it to spin/motor as described above and in Para 5 and 8 of my Troubleshooting Procedure.

Its sounding like your genny may be okay but you have a VR or other wiring problem. Work through my procedure step at a time it may tell you the cause, maybe a VR or wiring problem??

NOTE if a VR isnt properly grounded it cant work, CHECK THAT

Go back to my procedure, all of this is covered there

John T

 

[John T]

PS In addition to my answers below and my Troubleshooting Procedure in a short summary

If shes running when you dead ground the gennys FLD post and momentarily jump the VR's BAT over to GEN/ARM together THAT BY PASSES THE VR FUNCTION so if it charges then but NOT otherwise, the genny itself is okay so the problem is the VR is bad or not well grounded or theres a wiring or grounding problem

John T
John Ts Troubleshooting

 

[rustred]

no, the contacts close when the charging is happening. lots of times at a slow idle there is no charging contacts will be open till it gets reved up. and once you start messing with the contacts by filing or cleaning them everything is thrown out of whack.

 

[gene bender]

simple check ground the field and if that makes it charge the reg is bad if it does not charg the gen is bad. You need to use your OHM meter put one lead on the ground side and then put the other lead to the gen then the reg then the lite sw all componets need ground what is the DELCO REMY # on the gen last three digits a 355 or a 501

 

[John T]

Good point you raise simple check ground the field and if that makes it charge the reg is bad...

To that I would also say ...ORRRRRRRRRRR the reg (even it good) isn't grounded.

Ive seen that happen especially after new paint jobs lol

Take care best wishes

John T

 

[grandpa Love]

I ran a ground wire from the little copper braid on regulator to the ground in the battery.... Didn't help. Going to the shop in a bit to fool with it.

 

[John T]

You will get it fixed hopefully

John T