Battery post shims

[Russ from MN]

I didn't realize that they were available to buy, I have just used brass shim stock, but I always worked in a profession where that was available. I have always wondered why they still use the primitive post and clamp connection on the battery, but the other end of the cables are on a stud, maybe because of the possibility of corrosion. I used to drive GM vehicles, and the side terminals worked fine for me, and motorcycles and lawn tractors use a tab and bolt, which works well.

 

[Rich'sToys]

I have always wondered why they still use the primitive post and clamp connection on the battery, but the other end of the cables are on a stud, maybe because of the possibility of corrosion.

They're a little more difficult to use jumper cables on, although it can be done.

Stay away from the plastic shims!

 

[NDIHC]

I Will not concede its a shim it and ship it repair... Is your opinion its a permanent fix. ? I have a few I took off all came in on the hook as a no crank the good it paid well for me and the tow truck driver.

I've never had one come back. Ever. The vehicles we use the shims on are generally under factory warranty, so if there was a problem, we'd see them back. This type of clamp can be tightened only so far. They will be tight on the oe battery but will not tighten on the replacement terminal. A new cable end changes nothing. The clamp isn't stretched or anything like that. They simply have limited range of tightening. In some instances, it is possible to drive the clamp farther onto the post as you suggested, but not always with the plastic housing and fuse holder on the clamp. It is a design I work with on a daily basis. It is what it is. And we don't just throw a shim on everything. It's just the one certain type of clamp, the exact one that the OP has in the picture.

 

[NDIHC]

@john in la,
Looks like that clamp is recessed into the plastic battery cover. And not much room for the clamp to be larger if you were to use the cap shims.
Might not be enough room for the "larger" clamp.

You can buy a new replacement for around $15, even Amazon sells them.

If you could increase the gap circled in red you might get it to clamp more so.

View attachment 66233

The limiting factor on these clamps isn't the gap, it's the cone shaped protrusion on the bottom of the nut, which engages the slotted hole. The cone pushes the arm to pull the clamp closed. Once the nut is tight against the arm, that's as far as it will go. If the battery post is even slightly under size, it won't tighten. There is no bolt going through from side to side that you can just tighten up, only the cone under that nut you see on top.

 

[DoubleO7]

@NDIHC,
I think this pic shows more on the clamping. So the underside of the nut is conical. Does that engage a conical round hole or it looks like a pear shape slot with tapered upper edge? So like you say when the nut is tightened, the cone bottom nut forces the clamp slide tighter as the nuts cone shape is pushing into the pear shape slot. Then it hits the large round portion of the slot and can no clamp any more that that.
Yes?

Video Link

 

[NDIHC]

@NDIHC,
I think this pic shows more on the clamping. So the underside of the nut is conical. Does that engage a conical round hole or it looks like a pear shape slot with tapered upper edge? So like you say when the nut is tightened, the cone bottom nut forces the clamp slide tighter as the nuts cone shape is pushing into the pear shape slot. Then it hits the large round portion of the slot and can no clamp any more that that.
Yes?
View attachment 66324Video Link

You pretty much nailed it. Sorry if my description wasn't real clear.The upper edge is tapered for the cone, actually more of a radius, to make the arm slide sideways. It will only tighten as far as the cone on the bottom of the nut will pull that little arm sideways. Then the nut is bottomed out. The clamps really dont stretch because they have limited clamping force. That limited movement is why we use shims when the battery post is smaller than the OE post. I don't know why the replacement batteries often have slightly smaller posts, but they do. These clamps are pretty much vehicle specific so it's not real easy to put a different style clamp on them. The OP stated that the battery had been replaced, so that's why I'm figuring the replacement battery has a slightly smaller post diameter. It's not an ideal design, I get that. And if they had more movement capability we wouldn't use shims. But we have to work with what the manufacturer put on the vehicle. I'm not trying to fight with anyone, just saying that is how they are made. They aren't made like the old lead alloy clamps that most people have on their tractors, mine included. If I had the choice I wouldn't use shims either. As I said, you work with what you have.

 

[Hobo,NC]

You pretty much nailed it. Sorry if my description wasn't real clear.The upper edge is tapered for the cone, actually more of a radius, to make the arm slide sideways. It will only tighten as far as the cone on the bottom of the nut will pull that little arm sideways. Then the nut is bottomed out. The clamps really dont stretch because they have limited clamping force. That limited movement is why we use shims when the battery post is smaller than the OE post. I don't know why the replacement batteries often have slightly smaller posts, but they do. These clamps are pretty much vehicle specific so it's not real easy to put a different style clamp on them. The OP stated that the battery had been replaced, so that's why I'm figuring the replacement battery has a slightly smaller post diameter. It's not an ideal design, I get that. And if they had more movement capability we wouldn't use shims. But we have to work with what the manufacturer put on the vehicle. I'm not trying to fight with anyone, just saying that is how they are made. They aren't made like the old lead alloy clamps that most people have on their tractors, mine included. If I had the choice I wouldn't use shims either. As I said, you work with what you have.

The problem arises from low bidder got the contract, enjoy your free battery instillation. If it clamps any part of the post ship it. This type of terminal are any for that matter is not a candidate for those useless felt washers. Those shims are a hack repair and you know it so why promote it. If my supplier could not supply me with a part that fits I would find one that will. I don't have an issue selling the proper repair/parts so I don't understand why you are your employer does. This is not a fight its about the proper repair what the poster asked for.

Issues like this I use to fight everyday and why I don't take in all comers, not all are looking for cheap some what it repaired right and will pay for it. Those are the folks I want to work for, Life is good.

 

[moresmoke]

I didn't realize that they were available to buy, I have just used brass shim stock, but I always worked in a profession where that was available. I have always wondered why they still use the primitive post and clamp connection on the battery, but the other end of the cables are on a stud, maybe because of the possibility of corrosion. I used to drive GM vehicles, and the side terminals worked fine for me, and motorcycles and lawn tractors use a tab and bolt, which works well.

Heavy trucks all use battery connections that are 3/8 studs. Mostly eliminates connection issues. My larger tractors get converted to studs as I change them to group 31 batteries.

 

[NDIHC]

The problem arises from low bidder got the contract, enjoy your free battery instillation. If it clamps any part of the post ship it. This type of terminal are any for that matter is not a candidate for those useless felt washers. Those shims are a hack repair and you know it so why promote it. If my supplier could not supply me with a part that fits I would find one that will. I don't have an issue selling the proper repair/parts so I don't understand why you are your employer does. This is not a fight its about the proper repair what the poster asked for.

Issues like this I use to fight everyday and why I don't take in all comers, not all are looking for cheap some what it repaired right and will pay for it. Those are the folks I want to work for, Life is good.

Im not talking about suppliers, I'm talking about factory original parts. I'm not promoting anything, just saying what the car manufacturer requires. I can only do what the manufacturer approves. Dealership practices require me to do manufacturer approved repairs. Manufacturer dictates what what we can do. So what is your repair for this? I agree, the felt washers are useless. But when I have a nearly new car, heck I've had brand new cars with bad batteries, under warranty that has a bad battery, covered under warranty, I have to use the factory original parts. I agree, they are of inferior design. But I can't cobble an aftermarket cable end to replace the original. I understand where you are coming from. If I put on a factory replacement end, which I would be required to do, the situation does not change if the replacement battery has a smaller diameter post than the factory original. I get it. It's a bad design. But I'm required to follow warranty requirements. I cant magically make an OE part fit if the battery clamp doesn't fit the replacement part. And this is with factory approved batteries. We don't put in batteries sourced from Napa or Oreillys, these are batteries from the manufacturer. The clamps have limited clamping range and the replacement batteries have slightly smaller posts. I'm bound by warranty requirements. And warranty approves shims. Is it ideal? No. But this is real world where we have to abide by manufacturer practices. Again, we have never had a problem with the shims and I've been working for this manufacturer for going on 20 years What would you have this original poster do? He can't just put on any cable end, they are vehicle specific. I'm just stating what is the warranty approved fix. If you have a better fix, go for it. Aftermarket, do what you want. I'm talking a out what the OE fix is. I'm done.

 

[MJMJ]

The problem arises from low bidder got the contract, enjoy your free battery instillation. If it clamps any part of the post ship it. This type of terminal are any for that matter is not a candidate for those useless felt washers. Those shims are a hack repair and you know it so why promote it. If my supplier could not supply me with a part that fits I would find one that will. I don't have an issue selling the proper repair/parts so I don't understand why you are your employer does. This is not a fight its about the proper repair what the poster asked for.

Issues like this I use to fight everyday and why I don't take in all comers, not all are looking for cheap some what it repaired right and will pay for it. Those are the folks I want to work for, Life is good.

Either you don’t understand what is being said, or just want to argue so you can pretend to be smarter than everyone.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Im not talking about suppliers, I'm talking about factory original parts. I'm not promoting anything, just saying what the car manufacturer requires. I can only do what the manufacturer approves. Dealership practices require me to do manufacturer approved repairs. Manufacturer dictates what what we can do. So what is your repair for this? I agree, the felt washers are useless. But when I have a nearly new car, heck I've had brand new cars with bad batteries, under warranty that has a bad battery, covered under warranty, I have to use the factory original parts. I agree, they are of inferior design. But I can't cobble an aftermarket cable end to replace the original. I understand where you are coming from. If I put on a factory replacement end, which I would be required to do, the situation does not change if the replacement battery has a smaller diameter post than the factory original. I get it. It's a bad design. But I'm required to follow warranty requirements. I cant magically make an OE part fit if the battery clamp doesn't fit the replacement part. And this is with factory approved batteries. We don't put in batteries sourced from Napa or Oreillys, these are batteries from the manufacturer. The clamps have limited clamping range and the replacement batteries have slightly smaller posts. I'm bound by warranty requirements. And warranty approves shims. Is it ideal? No. But this is real world where we have to abide by manufacturer practices. Again, we have never had a problem with the shims and I've been working for this manufacturer for going on 20 years What would you have this original poster do? He can't just put on any cable end, they are vehicle specific. I'm just stating what is the warranty approved fix. If you have a better fix, go for it. Aftermarket, do what you want. I'm talking a out what the OE fix is. I'm done.

At this time I am a sole proprietor without employees I am the one that takes the complaints. I am the warranty company in my world when you doctor on something to save the customer money are to get some more life out of a part in the end it cost you money and you know where I am coming from. 90% of your problems come from I should have taken care of that when confronted with the issue. I understand you have to please the man its all about the numbers to him he's pushing you if you balk it cost you in production.

This is the rap we get from the general public which some of it we deserve : (... I get no pleasure from my harsh statements about those shims are the ones that think this is an accepted repair technique, its still kicking the can down the road.

I am at the point in my life I pick who I work for I am 50 years into it and near the end. I would like to get out of this alive, I have learned to say "I can not help you" to be a warm and fuzzy feeling : ). I am finding I can not get away from the shop I am married to it. I tell folks If I am busy I can't leave If I am slow I can't leave I can not get away from this place. If I can get away from the shop the last thing I want is a call for a issue I had in my hands on and instead of performing the correct repair I kicked the can down the road.

I can and will spent a hour busting my rear on a battery cable issue I have no problem billing my time for it. If the customer does not appreciate it on the next visit "I can not help YOU"

I respect your thoughts as this conversation has stayed clean.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Either you don’t understand what is being said, or just want to argue so you can pretend to be smarter than everyone.

I did not get to where I am at kicking the can down the road, how about you.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I did not get to where I am at kicking the can down the road, how about you.

There is a difference in statements.

1) crops in the field rain is coming my tractor is dead in the field how can I get it going fast.
1a) Getter done
2) My love ones will depend on this vehicle what's a permanent repair.

2a) Perform the most dependable repair, guilt can stay locked up in the box where it belongs.

 

[DoubleO7]

@Hobo,NC

So what exactly would your fix be for GP Love?

Refuse to do the job?

 

[DoubleO7]

Aftermarket new ones might not be made exactly the same size as o.e.m. ?

 

[john in la]

Hobo
I got a couple of questions just for you because I really want to do this the right way.

Are you saying the post shims will not work??

Are you saying the post shims will work it is just not the proper way to fix the problem??

If I buy a new proper battery terminal and it still fits the battery post loosely what do I do then?? Replace the battery??

If I replace the battery and the new battery terminal fits this second battery terminal loosely what do I do then??? Replace the battery again??

Thanks

 

[Hobo,NC]

Are you saying the post shims will work it is just not the proper way to fix the problem??

Yes its a temporary repair kicking the can down the road.

You need to repair the original cable end, replace it, repair the damage from improper instillation and are find a battery that fits. It did not leave the factory this way, its a common mess up by those that don't care are know what they are doing. There is no excuse for this excuses are for those that make them up. This is one I ran into yesterday it it clamps ship it. Its trouble in the making no attempt was made to properly install the cables. Both just hanging on : ( enjoy your free instillation.

 

[NDIHC]

I know I said I was done, but just to clarify, I'm talking about ONE SPECIFIC CLAMP DESIGN. The design in the pic by the OP. And I understand what Hobonc is saying. If I were to replace the clamp, and battery, and the clamp still doesn't tighten on the post, what is the alternative? Keep trying different batteries? At some point you run out of options. I work on these models on a daily basis. The example shown of a bad clamp installation is just that. Someone performed a bad service. That example is easily remedied by pushing the clamp down as it should have been done to begin with. But this clamp is a different animal. It's a bad design and not something you can replace with a different design. If I cant find a battery and clamp combination that works, what do I do? Tell the customer that I can't fix their car? I can't do that. Being the manufacturer's dealership, I have to find a solution. But I will reiterate that I have never had a battery with a PROPERLY installed shim come back for an electrical problem. I've seen some that were really cobbled up, but no comebacks for ones that were installed correctly.

 

[Mad Farmer]

Most new clamps are POS.

Use copper or brass shim stock not steel.

 

[paul]

Why do we put up with junk parts like this? What a stupid clamp design on a critical part.

Adding in a shim which offers yet another surface to corrode isn’t much of a fix. Something I would do on my tractor that doesn’t leave the property, but why such dumb stuff on things that should go down the road?

We deserve better. 1971 was a lot better manufaturing, as someone brought that year up….

Paul