black spark plugs, worse and worse

[Jim.ME]

You have not mentioned these things. Are the contacts of the points in good condition? Have the points been properly gapped? Has the timing properly set with a timing light? Was the distributor advance operation checked during timing?

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 03:23:22 06/09/23)
You have not mentioned these things. Are the contacts of the points in good condition? Have the points been properly gapped? Has the timing properly set with a timing light? Was the distributor advance operation checked during timing?

got a timing light and compression tester at harbor freight...I'll try to do it this weekend and update the thread. thank you.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 17:26:40 06/09/23)

(quoted from post at 03:23:22 06/09/23)
You have not mentioned these things. Are the contacts of the points in good condition? Have the points been properly gapped? Has the timing properly set with a timing light? Was the distributor advance operation checked during timing?

got a timing light and compression tester at harbor freight...I'll try to do it this weekend and update the thread. thank you.

**** Ignition timing to be set to the "FIRE" mark or F-30 mark on the flywheel at wide open throttle !!! Compression test with all four spark plugs removed, the throttle wide open and a battery charger on the battery. A healthy D-17 gas engine will have 145 psi cranking compression.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 17:42:47 06/09/23)

(quoted from post at 17:26:40 06/09/23)

(quoted from post at 03:23:22 06/09/23)
You have not mentioned these things. Are the contacts of the points in good condition? Have the points been properly gapped? Has the timing properly set with a timing light? Was the distributor advance operation checked during timing?

got a timing light and compression tester at harbor freight...I'll try to do it this weekend and update the thread. thank you.

**** Ignition timing to be set to the "FIRE" mark or F-30 mark on the flywheel at wide open throttle !!! Compression test with all four spark plugs removed, the throttle wide open and a battery charger on the battery. A healthy D-17 gas engine will have 145 psi cranking compression.

Compression test with throttle wide open but the fuel turned off at the sediment bowl right? Otherwise I'll just flood the carburetor right?

 

[Aaron SEIA]

(quoted from post at 08:30:31 06/16/23)

(quoted from post at 17:42:47 06/09/23)

(quoted from post at 17:26:40 06/09/23)

(quoted from post at 03:23:22 06/09/23)
You have not mentioned these things. Are the contacts of the points in good condition? Have the points been properly gapped? Has the timing properly set with a timing light? Was the distributor advance operation checked during timing?

got a timing light and compression tester at harbor freight...I'll try to do it this weekend and update the thread. thank you.

**** Ignition timing to be set to the "FIRE" mark or F-30 mark on the flywheel at wide open throttle !!! Compression test with all four spark plugs removed, the throttle wide open and a battery charger on the battery. A healthy D-17 gas engine will have 145 psi cranking compression.

Compression test with throttle wide open but the fuel turned off at the sediment bowl right? Otherwise I'll just flood the carburetor right?

Not with all 4 plugs out, but to be safe, I'd shut it off.
AaronSEIA

 

[DrAllis]

Compression test with throttle wide open but the fuel turned off at the sediment bowl right? Otherwise I'll just flood the carburetor right?[/quote] With any normally functioning carburetor, NO FLOODING unless you were maybe choking it. But, with your carburetor, who knows.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 17:25:00 06/16/23) Compression test with throttle wide open but the fuel turned off at the sediment bowl right? Otherwise I'll just flood the carburetor right?

With any normally functioning carburetor, NO FLOODING unless you were maybe choking it. But, with your carburetor, who knows.[/quote]
Ok...so it took me a while to get back to this, but here's what I've learned so far. I haven't gotten the compression and timing done yet, because when I fired up the engine just before I was going to do that I noticed that I had a bad leak coming from the manifold. I saw smoke coming from the manifold on the exhaust furthest to the front of the tractor, as well as some fluid spraying out and dripping down. Here's what I've done: I took off the carb and cleaned it out good, the gaskets seemed pretty worn, which would explain how I was having fuel coming out the air intake on the rear side of the carb when I forgot to turn off the valve at the sediment bowl. I put the carb back together temporarily but I'm going to order some new gaskets for both between the top and bottom of the carb as well as the carb to manifold connection as there might have been a small leak there as well. I've got the manifold off now - there were no gaskets on it when I took it off. I'm ordering gaskets for the manifold (if that doesn't work then maybe a new manifold). When I fired up the engine the last time before I did this work, it idled totally fine, purred like a kitten. Then whenever I tried to throttle up it would sputter and basically stall - I couldn't get any power. But if I throttled back down to idle, again it purred. Q: could it be these leaks that cause all my problems? Maybe no suction because air's getting in and out, so the engine doesn't get enough fuel when throttled up even though there's no physical obstruction in the fuel tank, bowl, line, etc. Also, maybe these leaks were causing my spark plug fouling too?

 

[mywizbo]

Also, when I took the manifold off, as the bolts came out, what I believe was coolant drained out. Should the coolant be in the engine when it's cold and come out the holes where the manifold was bolted?

 

[mywizbo]

Anyone know what this is? It was tee'd into the upper hose to the water manifold from the water pump, and then connected to the coolant drain in the cylinder block just below and forward of the carburetor. It's got a plug connected to it that's not connected to anything...

Also, I can't find this info in the operator's or shop manual - is the transmission connected to the PTO such that the transmission oil is shared with the PTO shaft?
I've got what looks like milky tranny oil coming out of the PTO shaft seal. I know my tranny oil is milky because the shifter cover is broken, water got in and I opened it up and looks like milky coffee. I've got a new shifter cover coming soon.

Thank you to all in advance, I really appreciate any help you can offer from your experience. I'm trying to get this thing running good.


This post was edited by mywizbo on 08/06/2023 at 09:58 pm.

 

[Jim.ME]

A picture of what you are asking about would help, however it sounds like a coolant heater to aid in cold weather starting.

The PTO and transmission oil is one and the same. Your shop manual should show you the PTO gearing drives from the transmission and the shaft passes through the differential case.

 

[Jim.ME]

The engine should have coolant in it whether it is hot or cold. Filling the radiator to the proper level keeps the engine full of coolant. Some of the manifold stud holes were through drilled into the water (coolant) jacket before they are tapped with threads, and coolant will come out if the studs are removed. Use a thread sealant when reinstalling the studs.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 04:20:42 08/07/23)
A picture of what you are asking about would help, however it sounds like a coolant heater to aid in cold weather starting.

The PTO and transmission oil is one and the same. Your shop manual should show you the PTO gearing drives from the transmission and the shaft passes through the differential case.

Thank you. I uploaded pictures but they didn't get posted for some reason. I'll try again, but that makes sense what you're saying. I pulled it out as I never used it and had no problems starting last winter.

So I reattached the manifold and carb with new gaskets...no more leaks and it seemed like it wanted to throttle up the rpms a little more but still not running smoothly and still stumbles when increase throttle.
I'll get my compression test done. Also, I read on another post about a similar issue not being able to throttle up that a bad condenser can seem like it's starving for gas.
Maybe a distributor tune up kit would be a good idea to try?

 

[Jim.ME]

Compression test, valve clearance adjustment, full tune up (use quality parts like Standard Blue Streak or Echlin) and adjust the timing by the manual, are basic things to do.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 18:37:51 08/08/23)
Compression test, valve clearance adjustment, full tune up (use quality parts like Standard Blue Streak or Echlin) and adjust the timing by the manual, are basic things to do.

Thanks...waiting on the parts and will update as I get some of this done. I really appreciate it. I'm uploading the coolant heater photos. I took it off for now.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 18:37:51 08/08/23)
Compression test, valve clearance adjustment, full tune up (use quality parts like Standard Blue Streak or Echlin) and adjust the timing by the manual, are basic things to do.

Here's what I did:

A) I put in new points and condenser, I set the gap to .022 at its widest opening point. I've got to get the loader off before I can see the timing hole I think.

B) Compression Test: Cylinder #1: 132, #2: 128, #3: 130, #4: 131

C) Put carb back together with new gasket between the top and bottom and between the carb and the manifold intake. Fired it up and it runs nicely and I can throttle up and get the rpms to increase very nicely now, which I couldn't before - but only when it's choked at least a little.

D) Installed a new oil pressure gauge.

---------------

Results:

1) If I push the choke rod all the way in (open the air intake completely) it'll sputter and die, and

2) I suddenly got engine oil spurting out from the dipstick and leaking from the connection between the cylinder block and the torque housing on the rear end of the oil sump where it meets the torque housing.

3) No movement on the oil pressure gauge. Maybe the cable is bad from the oil filter to the gauge, or maybe I've got no oil pressure at all

Have I done something here by closing up previous air leaks and somehow causing more oil pressure build up, or clogged a pressure release somewhere?

Is it sure that I now have an air leak somewhere? I think I closed up some air leaks I might have had around the manifold and the carb by putting new gaskets on with gasket shellac which may be why I can throttle up now. But since I need to choke to get it to run good does that mean for sure I've got an air leak somewhere?

Thank you very much for your help, anything you can think of that might give me a direction to work in now. I will for sure get to the timing and the valve clearance, but since I've got power back and it seems to run smooth, I think I've got to work on this oil pressure/leak problem and choke first.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 13:06:07 08/20/23)

(quoted from post at 18:37:51 08/08/23)
Compression test, valve clearance adjustment, full tune up (use quality parts like Standard Blue Streak or Echlin) and adjust the timing by the manual, are basic things to do.

Here's what I did:

A) I put in new points and condenser, I set the gap to .022 at its widest opening point. I've got to get the loader off before I can see the timing hole I think.

B) Compression Test: Cylinder #1: 132, #2: 128, #3: 130, #4: 131

C) Put carb back together with new gasket between the top and bottom and between the carb and the manifold intake. Fired it up and it runs nicely and I can throttle up and get the rpms to increase very nicely now, which I couldn't before - but only when it's choked at least a little.

D) Installed a new oil pressure gauge.

---------------

Results:

1) If I push the choke rod all the way in (open the air intake completely) it'll sputter and die, and

2) I suddenly got engine oil spurting out from the dipstick and leaking from the connection between the cylinder block and the torque housing on the rear end of the oil sump where it meets the torque housing.

3) No movement on the oil pressure gauge. Maybe the cable is bad from the oil filter to the gauge, or maybe I've got no oil pressure at all

***** #1. As far as I'm concerned, you don't have a "known good carburetor". Borrow one from another D-17 or WD45 that you KNOW works fine and try it. #2. Now we have engine oil leaks ??? Is the engine overfull of oil ?? that may be overfull with GASOLINE mixed with it ??? #3. Did you have oil pressure on the old gauge ?? Why did you change that out ?? If you had oil pressure before and swapped gauges and now you don't have oil pressure ?? Disconnect the oil pressure gauge line at the filter base and see if oil spews from there. If not, you have a zero oil pressure thing going on !!!

 

[Jim.ME]

Long shot here on oil pressure. Have you had the oil filter off? Which oil filter does it have? The early one with external threads like a Mason Jar, that screws into the base or the modern type that has a smaller internal thread and screws on to a short hollow stud in the center of the base?

If it has the older type if the tube (about 4 inches long), in the center of the base the filter has to slide down over before threading into the base, oil pressure will go way down if the tube is missing or out of place.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 16:13:15 08/20/23)

(quoted from post at 13:06:07 08/20/23)

(quoted from post at 18:37:51 08/08/23)
Compression test, valve clearance adjustment, full tune up (use quality parts like Standard Blue Streak or Echlin) and adjust the timing by the manual, are basic things to do.

Here's what I did:

A) I put in new points and condenser, I set the gap to .022 at its widest opening point. I've got to get the loader off before I can see the timing hole I think.

B) Compression Test: Cylinder #1: 132, #2: 128, #3: 130, #4: 131

C) Put carb back together with new gasket between the top and bottom and between the carb and the manifold intake. Fired it up and it runs nicely and I can throttle up and get the rpms to increase very nicely now, which I couldn't before - but only when it's choked at least a little.

D) Installed a new oil pressure gauge.

---------------

Results:

1) If I push the choke rod all the way in (open the air intake completely) it'll sputter and die, and

2) I suddenly got engine oil spurting out from the dipstick and leaking from the connection between the cylinder block and the torque housing on the rear end of the oil sump where it meets the torque housing.

3) No movement on the oil pressure gauge. Maybe the cable is bad from the oil filter to the gauge, or maybe I've got no oil pressure at all

***** #1. As far as I'm concerned, you don't have a "known good carburetor". Borrow one from another D-17 or WD45 that you KNOW works fine and try it. #2. Now we have engine oil leaks ??? Is the engine overfull of oil ?? that may be overfull with GASOLINE mixed with it ??? #3. Did you have oil pressure on the old gauge ?? Why did you change that out ?? If you had oil pressure before and swapped gauges and now you don't have oil pressure ?? Disconnect the oil pressure gauge line at the filter base and see if oil spews from there. If not, you have a zero oil pressure thing going on !!!

1. I'll see if I can find a carb to borrow that I know works.
2. I should have, but I haven't changed the engine oil since I got the tractor last season. I checked it last year when it bought it with the dipstick and it was full and didn't look too dirty so I left it. Each time I've checked it since it's been full, but it's black now and needs to be changed.
3. I changed out the old oil gauge because it never worked since I got the tractor. I wanted to start getting this running right after so much work I'm putting into it. Now I see either there's no oil pressure, or the gauge or cable isn't working - but the gauge is new.
I'll try to disconnect the line at the filter base and report back on what happens. Maybe the I should change the filter first though, that's never been done since I've had it because I haven't changed the oil yet.

 

[mywizbo]

Not sure b/c I haven't had it off - I would've changed it when I change the oil out but haven't done it yet. I'll get the filter off tomorrow in the daytime and see what we've got.

 

[mywizbo]

Changed the oil and the oil filter. It was the newer kind with the threads in the middle.
I tightened up the oil sump bolts a little bit while I was under there and fingers crossed it doesn't seem to be leaking oil that I can see for now. Also, I haven't gotten any spray out of the dipstick. I still can't see any movement on the oil pressure gauge, but I did unscrew the line from the gauge to the oil filter next to the filter and there is a steady long stream of oil that sprays out of there...so either my line is kinked somewhere or the new gauge is dead out of the box.

I drained the tranny oil and went to change a pto oil seal because I had a little tranny oil leak from there before I put new hy/tran oil in and I can't figure out how to change that seal. It seems like it's inside the flange cover but it won't budge. I've got a new seal and it seems like it would only be able to be installed from the outside of the flange so I tried to pry the old seal out from the inside by pounding it but it won't move.
Any experience changing these?