black spark plugs, worse and worse

[DrAllis]

That seal will be stuck inside that aluminum holder pretty tight. You will never pry it out. Clamp the retainer in a vise and insert a flat blade screwdriver in at an angle from the front and drive it out. You will destroy the seal hammering it out of there. Use a big 3 lb hammer not a claw hammer. The seal goes in from the rear and comes out to the rear.

 

[mywizbo]

(quoted from post at 16:13:15 08/20/23)

(quoted from post at 13:06:07 08/20/23)

(quoted from post at 18:37:51 08/08/23)
Compression test, valve clearance adjustment, full tune up (use quality parts like Standard Blue Streak or Echlin) and adjust the timing by the manual, are basic things to do.

Here's what I did:

A) I put in new points and condenser, I set the gap to .022 at its widest opening point. I've got to get the loader off before I can see the timing hole I think.

B) Compression Test: Cylinder #1: 132, #2: 128, #3: 130, #4: 131

C) Put carb back together with new gasket between the top and bottom and between the carb and the manifold intake. Fired it up and it runs nicely and I can throttle up and get the rpms to increase very nicely now, which I couldn't before - but only when it's choked at least a little.

D) Installed a new oil pressure gauge.

---------------

Results:

1) If I push the choke rod all the way in (open the air intake completely) it'll sputter and die, and

2) I suddenly got engine oil spurting out from the dipstick and leaking from the connection between the cylinder block and the torque housing on the rear end of the oil sump where it meets the torque housing.

3) No movement on the oil pressure gauge. Maybe the cable is bad from the oil filter to the gauge, or maybe I've got no oil pressure at all

***** #1. As far as I'm concerned, you don't have a "known good carburetor". Borrow one from another D-17 or WD45 that you KNOW works fine and try it. #2. Now we have engine oil leaks ??? Is the engine overfull of oil ?? that may be overfull with GASOLINE mixed with it ??? #3. Did you have oil pressure on the old gauge ?? Why did you change that out ?? If you had oil pressure before and swapped gauges and now you don't have oil pressure ?? Disconnect the oil pressure gauge line at the filter base and see if oil spews from there. If not, you have a zero oil pressure thing going on !!!

Hi Dr I saw your answer to someone else a few years ago about changing the PTO seal, but I didn't see it before I started. I got the flange off, and my series 1 doesn't look like the other post you responded to. I've mangled the inside of the flange pretty bad trying to get the seal out, not sure if I'm doing something wrong, probably. You saw I responded to JimME that I did disconnect the oil pressure gauge line at the filter and it did spew from there - after changing the filter and oil - but the gauge still shows no pressure. Please look at the pics below of the pto oil seal I'm trying to change not sure what I'm doing here.
Thanks again for your help.

This post was edited by mywizbo on 08/21/2023 at 05:38 pm.

 

[mywizbo]

I hadn't seen your reply but I replied to you and tried to upload some photos but again it didn't let me - I'll try again. I saw your response to another guy a couple years ago, but I think that was a different series than mine: https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1595387&highlight=pto+seal+d17

It seems like it has to go in from the front because the seal is to big to go in from the rear. I got the pics to upload.
Thank you very much.
Also, fyi I did pull the pto shaft out before I saw you said not to do that. It went back in easy, but does that mean it's not engaged in the gear now?
Thanks Dr.

This post was edited by mywizbo on 08/21/2023 at 06:15 pm.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 17:57:58 08/21/23) I hadn't seen your reply but I replied to you and tried to upload some photos but again it didn't let me - I'll try again. I saw your response to another guy a couple years ago, but I think that was a different series than mine: https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1595387&highlight=pto+seal+d17

It seems like it has to go in from the front because the seal is to big to go in from the rear. I got the pics to upload.
Thank you very much.
Also, fyi I did pull the pto shaft out before I saw you said not to do that. It went back in easy, but does that mean it's not engaged in the gear now?
Thanks Dr. No problem with that, but you lost oil out of the Power Director compartment !!! and if you don't refill it with oil you will in short order destroy all the gears and bearings under the dashboard !! There is a dipstick to the LEFT of the gear shift and another to the RIGHT of the gear shift. Make sure they are both FULL of oil, preferable Hy-Tran type oil. 2 1/2 gallons in the LEFT and 6 gallons in the RIGHT. Trust the dipstick and what it reads.

This post was edited by mywizbo on 08/21/2023 at 06:15 pm.

 

[mywizbo]

Ok, I'll make sure to fill both. The power director fill is just from the bolt/dipstick port right? I take the reading with it sitting on the threads not bolted in I'm assuming.
Can you see the pics I sent of the pto flange? The rear side of it is narrower than the front side, that's why I thought the new seal has to go in from the outside. You can see that the new seal fits perfectly from the outside, but from the inside the seal is too big to go in.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 20:06:10 08/21/23) Ok, I'll make sure to fill both. The power director fill is just from the bolt/dipstick port right? I take the reading with it sitting on the threads not bolted in I'm assuming.
Can you see the pics I sent of the pto flange? The rear side of it is narrower than the front side, that's why I thought the new seal has to go in from the outside. You can see that the new seal fits perfectly from the outside, but from the inside the seal is too big to go in.

***** I said: drive it out to the rear. Install the new in from the rear.

 

[mywizbo]

So the diameter of the new seal I have is wider than the opening on the rear - since you're saying drive it out the rear AND install from the rear, that means that I've got the wrong size seal I guess...I won't be able to reinstall the new seal from the rear b/c it's bigger than the opening. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow in the light and upload it. Thank you.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 21:00:56 08/21/23) So the diameter of the new seal I have is wider than the opening on the rear - since you're saying drive it out the rear AND install from the rear, that means that I've got the wrong size seal I guess...I won't be able to reinstall the new seal from the rear b/c it's bigger than the opening. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow in the light and upload it. Thank you.

You know what ?? I might be wrong. It's been a long time since I changed one of those. It can't be that hard to figure out.

 

[mywizbo]

Hi Doc,
So I managed to get the seal out of the aluminum flange...it wasn't actually too bad once I knew that I really had to go at it. Before you know what your doing you're afraid to wreck it. Thanks for your help. I think I misunderstood you, it did go out and install from the rear, but that is the outside of the PTO shaft, I just misunderstood what you meant.
So I got all fluids topped up and was able to actually get some bushhogging done today which would have been unthinkable before when I couldn't throttle up. I still have to choke it to make it run well and my spark plugs still seem like they're black with dry soot. So, I'm back to the beginning but at least now I've got power back and can use the tractor.
Last question: I still don't understand how I could be running rich (and getting dry black soot on the plugs) and at the same time I have to choke it to make it run good. If I have to choke it I would think that means I'm running lean and therefore I need to stop so much air from getting in.
Still confused about that but at least if I can use it for the rest of this season and get into the winter I'll be able to tinker with it some more without pressure to get work done.
Thanks again. I'd really like to buy DrAllis and Jim.ME something as a token of my appreciation - does that violate forum rules?
You have all been so generous with your knowledge, and just to be nice and help other people. That's not so common in the world anymore - so thanks a lot.

 

[DrAllis]

(quoted from post at 18:16:07 08/22/23) Hi Doc,
So I managed to get the seal out of the aluminum flange...it wasn't actually too bad once I knew that I really had to go at it. Before you know what your doing you're afraid to wreck it. Thanks for your help. I think I misunderstood you, it did go out and install from the rear, but that is the outside of the PTO shaft, I just misunderstood what you meant.
So I got all fluids topped up and was able to actually get some bushhogging done today which would have been unthinkable before when I couldn't throttle up. I still have to choke it to make it run well and my spark plugs still seem like they're black with dry soot. So, I'm back to the beginning but at least now I've got power back and can use the tractor.
Last question: I still don't understand how I could be running rich (and getting dry black soot on the plugs) and at the same time I have to choke it to make it run good. If I have to choke it I would think that means I'm running lean and therefore I need to stop so much air from getting in.
Still confused about that but at least if I can use it for the rest of this season and get into the winter I'll be able to tinker with it some more without pressure to get work done.
Thanks again. I'd really like to buy DrAllis and Jim.ME something as a token of my appreciation - does that violate forum rules?
You have all been so generous with your knowledge, and just to be nice and help other people. That's not so common in the world anymore - so thanks a lot.

********** Until you get a carburetor that doesn't require the choke to be activated even a little bit to run, you're never going to see good clean plugs.

This post was edited by DrAllis on 08/23/2023 at 04:26 am.

 

[docmirror]

I have an idea, or theory on this that I'm going to share, and no way to test it unless I go out and purposefully fuel foul my tractor.

A fuel fouled situation indicates that too much fuel is entering the air stream. This also means that some of the fuel is not atomized, but is still in liquid form when it enters the combustion chamber. the non-atomized fuel is being deposited on the plugs, and the exhaust side, and some of it is being burned post combustion and comes out as black smoke.

We also have an indication that the engine runs somewhat better when the choke is on. Which got me to thinking what happens in the intake when the choke is pulled. The choke has no effect on the size of the orifice that is allowing fuel into the stream, but it does have an affect on the vaccum in the carb and may be helping to atomize some of the fuel in the venturi which can be burned along with the incoming air.

In this case, it appears that the fuel fouling is so extreme that some of the extra fuel is being atomized due to lower vapor pressure in the carb, and at the venturi, thus making the engine not bog down as much by quenching from liquid fuel. The atomized fuel is still not close to a stoichiometric mixture, but it is no longer causing quench cooling, or no longer causing liquid state bogging in the combustion chamber.

Solution. Rebuild the existing carb with new jets, and float, and needle and seat. Put in new plugs, and adjust the carb properly for stoichiometric mixture. A nice tool to use on our tractors for checking mixture is called the Gunson Colortune. It's a type of spark plug with a glass ring around the electrode so that one can actually see the color of the combustion events. Makes adjusting the carb mixture easy to set for a blue color combustion event. They are avail on amazon and ebay.