case 930 over fueling on one cylinder

[bradley martin]

so I got the energy cell cu out of # it is slightly pitted but swappiing it with#2 did not move the problem . I realy think the pump is sending twice as much fuel to #3 when I open the injector line there is a significant amount more fuel running down on the ground. Realy dumb question here is #1 by the fan or at the other end?

#1 is at the front, by the fan.

 

[mt matt]

so I talked to an old diesel mecanic friend and to a guy at the pump shop that did the injectors and they both said to take the pump off and take the side cover off to look at things. the rack for #3 was off several teeth no id how it got that way so I loosened up the clamp and realigned the metering sleeve. I put the pump back on and it sound much better. now I am trying to decide if I have some other bad noise or if the rattle is my imagination.

 

[mt matt]

#1 is at the front, by the fan.

thanks that is what I thought but then when setting the valves I thought the seqence ligned up the other way so actualy what I have been calling #3is #4 and so on.

 

[mt matt]

oh wow, assuming you are in MT by your user name? depending on where I might have some recommendations

thanks I think I will run it like this at least for awile if I need to get it fixed signiture fuels in Billings seems to do good work and be very helpful.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@mt matt that sleeve not only sets delivery but it affects timing some too, you need to get the pump to a reliable shop! someone didn't get the clamp screw locked down tight or was sloppy, either way dont run it much that way, you need to have it calibrated correctly!

 

[cumminstinkerer]

you are playing with ort opening and port closure by moving that sleeve, both do play into timing!

 

[mt matt]

you are playing with ort opening and port closure by moving that sleeve, both do play into timing!

thanks they are all lined up the same now and it sounds good also it shuts off now where it did not want to before.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@mt matt that means you are close, those things are really touchy, a very little bit is several CC's of delivery, they make you swear some when you are calibrating a pump, there is a spec for variation in delivery, don't know it off the top of my head, but that is how you balance delivery between the cylinders and like I said it will play a role in timing, small but still a role, been since 99 that I personally set one up but I remember little turns making big a lot bigger delivery change than you would think

 

[Janicholson]

@mt matt that means you are close, those things are really touchy, a very little bit is several CC's of delivery, they make you swear some when you are calibrating a pump, there is a spec for variation in delivery, don't know it off the top of my head, but that is how you balance delivery between the cylinders and like I said it will play a role in timing, small but still a role, been since 99 that I personally set one up but I remember little turns making big a lot bigger delivery change than you would think

With respect, mL is the unit I think it would take a large displacement to take a one CC injection shot. Jim

 

[cumminstinkerer]

cc and mL are the same unit, very like I said I dont remember for sure but seems like 1-2 cc variation was the allowed

 

[Janicholson]

cc and mL are the same unit, very like I said I dont remember for sure but seems like 1-2 cc variation was the allowed

some info
You are correct. My mistake. Milligrams (mg) is more likely. A mL or CC is just way too much fuel. Jim

 

[cumminstinkerer]

its CC's per revolution, you measure at like 100 revs or 500 revs like I said been a long time since I actually calibrated one, it would actually surprise you how much is actually injected per firing, newer engines actually give you the delivery rate on the tag, I am sure not arguing just telling you what I can remember. Pumps and injectors/nozzles are actually pretty interesting, just very finicky, little bits of dust can affect things a lot, super small adjustments can change delivery or opening pressures a lot!

 

[Janicholson]

A 3 cylinder 4 stroke engine with one cc per injection stroke in one minute at 1000 RPM has 1500 injections 1500cc is a liter and a half. Jim

 

[cumminstinkerer]

yep, also remember they are doing that at maximum delivery, aka peak horsepower, great example and I agree, I dont have a tag here handy to read, I also believe, I may not remember 100% right but it seems like it is per cylinder, 25 years is a long time to remember this stuff when you don't do it every day, it is pretty surprising how much they really do inject!

 

[Janicholson]

yep, also remember they are doing that at maximum delivery, aka peak horsepower, great example and I agree, I dont have a tag here handy to read, I also believe, I may not remember 100% right but it seems like it is per cylinder, 25 years is a long time to remember this stuff when you don't do it every day, it is pretty surprising how much they really do inject!

I liter per minute on a tractor would be 60 liters per hour or almost 16 gallons per hour. just too much for a Hubbard diesel.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

agree, it all depends on the application, each pump is different for each machine, I have seen tractors that can burn 5-15 gallons of fuel in 30-40 seconds, extreme I know but it is possible, also remember you are only at max delivery for brief periods, it is very hard to grasp until you actually run a pump on a test stand and play around to see how they behave under varying rpms and throttle settings

 

[Dieseltech]

Most injection pumps are calibrated for 1000 shots. The Case 930 pump has flat top plungers, rotation of the plunger metering sleeve changes the effective fuel delivery ONLY, not timing. The port closing timing is set by each adjustable tappet as that pump is constant BEGINNING of injection and variable end of injection.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

Thanks @Dieseltech I couldn't remember for sur on them old A pumps, its been 25 years since I had one on the stand, things get a little fuzzy on which ones do what as far as port timing and all plus the exact calibration, like how many shots you measure to do the cal! thats a long time when you don't do it everyday to remember the exacts

 

[mt matt]

Most injection pumps are calibrated for 1000 shots. The Case 930 pump has flat top plungers, rotation of the plunger metering sleeve changes the effective fuel delivery ONLY, not timing. The port closing timing is set by each adjustable tappet as that pump is constant BEGINNING of injection and variable end of injection.

So if I have all the sleeves lined up and the engine sounds good on a tractor I got for free cause the engine was stuck and I got it going is that close enough?

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@mt matt I would say you will be good, after dieseltch refreshed my memory about timing on them, as long as she aint making funny sounds or puffing smoke all should be good enough, at least for a putter around tractor, if you were gonna go pull the snot out of it then that may be a little different story!