Case-IH 895 steering question.

[Texasmark]

My newly acquired 895 was used with a loader for many hours but still had the original Good Year F1s with 60% or more tread remaining on the rears telling me that it wasn't a "plow mule" and the instant starting, non smoking engine with no overhaul marks on the engine verifies that. The wife of the owner sold it after he died and she had no use for it. The story from the used equipment salesman/store owner said that it was used mostly used for haying and having new front tires apparently the tread was worn off the fronts running probably 5x6 hay bales.

The steering piston, up at the front axle, has a range whereby it has moved over the years and the chrome of the cylinder is visible on both ends with the steering in a more or less straight ahead position. Turning one way it sucks up the rod till the chrome disappears at which time you can hear a slight load on the engine indicating (to me) that an over pressure valve is working and a nice tight turn can be accomplished.

In the other direction it doesn't completely hide the chrome inner shaft....about 1" of it is still visible and if you attempt to steer harder you don't hear an over pressure engine loading and my force on the steering wheel causes the wheel to turn a few degrees in that direction and stop, etc. etc. but the piston doesn't move........like on a newer Hydrostatic tractor where you can force the wheel to turn in the same manner in a steering maximum turning condition when you want to get the knob on the steering wheel to get back where you installed it in the first place.....one of the nuisances I have realized with my only hydro tractor.....unlike my older Fords that have "Power Assisted" steering and when you get to a max turn, the wheel doesn't move any additional distance and doesn't need to be reset to get the knob back where it was when centered.

The question is, do you think the cylinder up under the front axle is the culprit or the steering control operated (as part of) the steering wheel shaft assembly? The cylinder is apparently the same for most of the X95 tractors with the centered upper and lower screw attached, round attachment points above and below device and is available online for $200 and seemingly easy to replace. The tractor has a cab and if part of the steering wheel assembly I will leave it be as it is....just doesn't make as tight a turn in that direction as originally designed but its not that big of a nuisance for me to go after fixing it there.

Additional comment: Not having crawled under the tractor, I assume that there is a hydraulic hose at both ends of the cylinder and thought about disconnecting the lines one by one and testing the pressure. The service manual should have the available hydraulic pressure (about 1600 or so PSI????) and see if its the same on both ends.....if so then I'd suspect the cylinder to be at fault and if not steering wheel box....probably with what I said above, it's the steering wheel box at fault........butttt there are an awful lot of front end cylinders for sale on the www which points to a cylinder failure. Never had one apart but I would assume that the packing is a common element to both directions, in the center of a shaft so if the packing were bad it would be reflected on both ends......I would think.

Thanks for your thoughts,
Mark

 

[caterpillar guy]

If that is like the 74 series which I believe it is the barrel is in the middle with it sliding along the anchored shaft. Those can have the Piston move on the shaft which will let you not steer as far one way as the other. I would take a look at the whole front axle. IF the spindles are partially stuck or move hard along with the weight on the front with a loader it can happen. Another thing is if the bushings are all worn in the front assembly. It can be sloppy to steer, like trying to drive down the road at higher speeds you will not be able to control it. Tie rod ends and all get a major work out on loader tractors of any kind. There is no steering gear box. It is all hydraulic from the hand pump at the steering wheel, to the cylinder at the axle. With the wheel turned all the way either way it should be able to be turned some slowly from slippage through the hand pump and if it is to much it needs new seals or new hand pump depending on what you find out. Yes I would expect the pressure to be in the 1500-2000 PSI range with the wheel turned to stop then held with pressure on the end of the stroke. With the wheel just static there will be no pressure until you demand action at the wheel.

 

[Texasmark]

If that is like the 74 series which I believe it is the barrel is in the middle with it sliding along the anchored shaft. Those can have the Piston move on the shaft which will let you not steer as far one way as the other. I would take a look at the whole front axle. IF the spindles are partially stuck or move hard along with the weight on the front with a loader it can happen. Another thing is if the bushings are all worn in the front assembly. It can be sloppy to steer, like trying to drive down the road at higher speeds you will not be able to control it. Tie rod ends and all get a major work out on loader tractors of any kind. There is no steering gear box. It is all hydraulic from the hand pump at the steering wheel, to the cylinder at the axle. With the wheel turned all the way either way it should be able to be turned some slowly from slippage through the hand pump and if it is to much it needs new seals or new hand pump depending on what you find out. Yes I would expect the pressure to be in the 1500-2000 PSI range with the wheel turned to stop then held with pressure on the end of the stroke. With the wheel just static there will be no pressure until you demand action at the wheel.

Thank you sir. I just looked up the steering schematic on "My CNH" and was elated to see that the system is nothing more than the hydraulic steering valve at the base of the steering wheel shaft and the hyd. cylinder under the front axle. That control should be easily reached by either removing some shroud in the cab or I would expect to see some removable floor panels.

As I said earlier, there no longer is a loader on the tractor so that stress is relieved. I haven't jacked up the front end to check for steering component play. On moving the wheel back and forth and response from the front tires, even with the tractor not moving, it feels tight.....not sloppy. King pins took grease readily and not that many pumps to fill. Tie rod ends are tight and permanently sealed....no Zirks. Will check your recommendations when I get time.

I appreciate your taking the time to give me a detailed accounting of potential problems.

 

[JimB2]

Hi, most steering problems on those model of tractors are caused by lack of greasing the front axle zerks and the axle hubs especially if there had been a loader on it. Like Cat Guy said there is a chance that the center piston has moved on the cylinder rod limiting the steering in one direction.
First jack the front wheels off the ground and with engine off turn the steering wheel, the hand pump in the hydro steering pump should easily turn the front wheels to maximum in both directions.
See photo below from CIH 495 turned max to the right and will do the same to the left, your 895 should be similar but it probably has the heavier front axle with the two large bolts going horizontal through the axle.
If you have to change the PS cylinder under the front bolster the trick to access the hydraulic lines is to jack the front end up and tilt the front axle down to the left so you can access the hydraulic lines.

 

[Texasmark]

Hi, most steering problems on those model of tractors are caused by lack of greasing the front axle zerks and the axle hubs especially if there had been a loader on it. Like Cat Guy said there is a chance that the center piston has moved on the cylinder rod limiting the steering in one direction.
First jack the front wheels off the ground and with engine off turn the steering wheel, the hand pump in the hydro steering pump should easily turn the front wheels to maximum in both directions.
See photo below from CIH 495 turned max to the right and will do the same to the left, your 895 should be similar but it probably has the heavier front axle with the two large bolts going horizontal through the axle.
If you have to change the PS cylinder under the front bolster the trick to access the hydraulic lines is to jack the front end up and tilt the front axle down to the left so you can access the hydraulic lines.


View attachment 63298

Thank you sir. A question: If the cylinder center piston has moved off center, how do you get it back where it was initially?

 

[RedMVa]

Thank you sir. I just looked up the steering schematic on "My CNH" and was elated to see that the system is nothing more than the hydraulic steering valve at the base of the steering wheel shaft and the hyd. cylinder under the front axle. That control should be easily reached by either removing some shroud in the cab or I would expect to see some removable floor panels.

As I said earlier, there no longer is a loader on the tractor so that stress is relieved. I haven't jacked up the front end to check for steering component play. On moving the wheel back and forth and response from the front tires, even with the tractor not moving, it feels tight.....not sloppy. King pins took grease readily and not that many pumps to fill. Tie rod ends are tight and permanently sealed....no Zirks. Will check your recommendations when I get time.

I appreciate your taking the time to give me a detailed accounting of potential problems.

“Nothing more than the hydraulic steering valve “ except the fact that some and I’m not sure about the 95 series, are timed and unless you know what you are doing need to be replaced or taken to a hydraulic shop. Unless it’s leaking I doubt you have a problem with the steering valve. If those valves aren’t timed correctly when you start the tractor up and you’re holding the steering wheel wrong it could break your arm

 

[JimB2]

From your name I am assume you live in the USA, I believe you can buy a new aftermarket cylinder for under $300.00 US.
Part number is 549667R93 for the standard PS cylinder with the clevis on the one end for 2WD, even available on Amazon.

Links for repair: https://www.redpowermagazine.com/forums/topic/121946-475-574-674-steering-problems-with-video/

and

 

[Texasmark]

That's where I found one for $200 plus shipping. I have the site bookmarked depending on what I find here in an hour or so. Thanks

 

[Texasmark]

Well that didn't take long.

First off, the steering control valve is about a foot below the steering wheel so to access it would just mean to remove the sheet metal shroud below the wheel inside the cab.....easy enough but apparently unnecessary.........

I jacked up the front axle checking the grease in the wheels which rolled smooth as silk. Then I greased (thought I greased) the King Pins again as I had greased "at" them apparently when the tractor arrived. Having seen a Zerk associated with the cylinder...actually that one was on the yoke on one end, I greased that and in digging around up there found the one on the cylinder bracket at the pivot point and also found the Zerk for the axle pivot pin. Got them greased up.

Moving right along, engine still running, I grabbed the wheel and started turning..........surprise surprise (Gomer Pyle, USMC)......I heard dry, apparently rusted steel against the same and lo and behold I think I found my problem. I kept moving the wheel back and forth, forcing grease back into the pins (actually only the one on the right side was dry} and realized that although I was seeing grease oozing out at the top of the pin housing (like my Fords do and that's plenty for them), apparently the bottom of that housing (closed casting) wasn't getting any grease.

Numerous cycles of that and the friction dissipated and I could turn the wheel lock to lock, operation starting to out, squeaking demising, and could get the pressure overload valve to open in both directions now rather than the peculiar operation I had initially. I spent half an hour adding grease which it took without much coming out the top and rotating the wheel. Finally it quit popping and squealing and rotated smoothly.

So I took it for a spin frequently going to both extremes and it looks Iike I am good to go. The bad side hits the overload valve now like the good one does as I said above, and I measured the deflection distance of the steering arms atop the King pin housing and in a max turn, both showed 1" gap to an arbitrary measurement point on the front axle.

Problem solved and cost me maybe a tube of grease. Happy camper. My last IH was a gas 464 I bought in 1979 with 400 mowing hours and got a new battery, new rear tire and a new paint job by a professional that worked at the IH dealership. It seemed to me to be a gutless wonder with a 2 bottom plow behind it and I sold it. I hadn't purchased any of their products over the years but was on Craigs list recently and a neighbor had the 395 for sale, premium paint job super condition, and it would make a good companion to my 6' shredder....so now I had a mowing tractor and one less implement to hookup and the 395, had a much stronger 3 point hookup than my Fords of equal HP.....I was really wanting that as it was easy to tear up those parts on my Ford 3000 Diesel. Marveling at that and wanting a tractor I could hook to my round baler and eliminate that hookup PIA the 895 popped up on Craigs list about 25 miles away and I got free delivery and a great price.....happy camper.

Thanks for you guys inputs and I really appreciate your help.

 

[JimB2]

Good to hear that you have solved the problem with your 895.
My brother has 5 of the CIH/IH Doncaster, UK built tractors on his farm and he is looking for another with 4WD, cab with AC and two remote hydraulic outlets. They are difficult to find as no one wants to sell them or trade unless it is retirement or an estate sale. I always help with any major repairs on his farm and spend many hours driving tractors now that I am retire.

 

[Texasmark]

Good to hear that you have solved the problem with your 895.
My brother has 5 of the CIH/IH Doncaster, UK built tractors on his farm and he is looking for another with 4WD, cab with AC and two remote hydraulic outlets. They are difficult to find as no one wants to sell them or trade unless it is retirement or an estate sale. I always help with any major repairs on his farm and spend many hours driving tractors now that I am retire.

The fact that the assembly plant in UK built this basically the same design for decades speaks well for several reasons: Bugs are pretty much out of it.....the assembly parts pipeline is in place and has the bugs worked out, early IH tractors were bullet proof and have lasted for half a century so the designers are good at what they do....assembly people know what they are doing and not wondering where does this thing fit......and parts availability for user problems are plentiful. Whadda deal. Just so sad that greed and stupidity drive a lot of companies in the ground that should have survived. If we could just get greed out of the human mentality!!!!!!!!!

 

[caterpillar guy]

If those spindles were that dry you might want to when you get some time to look into what the thrust bearings in the bottom of the knees look like . I'm betting they are about shot from the loader that was on there. they are available through All State Ag Parts in a kit with the top spindle bushings, bottom thrust bearings and all the felt washers and seals, or were, when I got one for our 674 . Look up under the front on the axle there should be a zerk for the top and bottom plates holding the cylinder along with a pivot zerk for the shaft that the steering cylinder pivots on then there is a grease fitting right in front of the crank pulley for the axle. I seem to remember one in the front for the axle pivot also. We put a hose on the back one since it was hard to get to with the pulley and all the other things in the way on it. By the way a 1466 spindle would fit our 574 knee for a bigger spindle bearing with more strength to the wheels on the front. Just have to cut a keyway in the spindle for the steering arm on it.

 

[Texasmark]

If those spindles were that dry you might want to when you get some time to look into what the thrust bearings in the bottom of the knees look like . I'm betting they are about shot from the loader that was on there. they are available through All State Ag Parts in a kit with the top spindle bushings, bottom thrust bearings and all the felt washers and seals, or were, when I got one for our 674 . Look up under the front on the axle there should be a zerk for the top and bottom plates holding the cylinder along with a pivot zerk for the shaft that the steering cylinder pivots on then there is a grease fitting right in front of the crank pulley for the axle. I seem to remember one in the front for the axle pivot also. We put a hose on the back one since it was hard to get to with the pulley and all the other things in the way on it. By the way a 1466 spindle would fit our 574 knee for a bigger spindle bearing with more strength to the wheels on the front. Just have to cut a keyway in the spindle for the steering arm on it.

"Bottom of the knees"? Are you referring to what I am calling the King pins...like cars and trucks used on the front wheel steering pivots back in the 40-50's to name one time period?

I found the zerks on the piston and the zerk in front of the crank pulley. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Texasmark]

“Nothing more than the hydraulic steering valve “ except the fact that some and I’m not sure about the 95 series, are timed and unless you know what you are doing need to be replaced or taken to a hydraulic shop. Unless it’s leaking I doubt you have a problem with the steering valve. If those valves aren’t timed correctly when you start the tractor up and you’re holding the steering wheel wrong it could break your arm

I just caught your response...sorry for the delay in acknowledging. That's an interesting piece of information about timing. I have no idea as to the internal design of the unit but I can understand that starting the engine and having hydraulic pressure arrive at the hydraulic steering box things could happen. Thanks for the tip. As it stands now, things are in fine working order and I don't need to be concerned about steering problems any longer......phewwwwww.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Janicholson]

"Bottom of the knees"? Are you referring to what I am calling the King pins...like cars and trucks used on the front wheel steering pivots back in the 40-50's to name one time period?

I found the zerks on the piston and the zerk in front of the crank pulley. Thanks for your reply.

example

The shaft running from the top to the bottom of the "knee" and attached to a steering arm at the top and having a spindle on the bottom is comparable to a King Pin, IH calls that a knuckle, and the Knee as a a part of the axle assembly. They are at an angle such that the center of pivot on the ground is at or close to the center of the tires contact patch on the ground. Jim

 

[Texasmark]

example

The shaft running from the top to the bottom of the "knee" and attached to a steering arm at the top and having a spindle on the bottom is comparable to a King Pin, IH calls that a knuckle, and the Knee as a a part of the axle assembly. They are at an angle such that the center of pivot on the ground is at or close to the center of the tires contact patch on the ground. Jim

Thank you sir!