Farmall H jumping out of gear

[tomturkey]

Super H will not hold in 5th gear on its own. Operator must hold it in position or wrap a bungee cord to secure it there. Am I dealing with a shift rail problem or possibly a worn gear. Any help will be appreciated. thank you. gobble

 

[Janicholson]

The parts

The fifth gear is a direct drive through the transmission from front to back. this involves a sliding 4/5th sliding gear, and splines on the input shaft. See link in blue for image. The sliding gear is used for 4th and is slid rearward to do that meshing with the matching gear on the bottom (counter) shaft. In 5th, that gear is slid forward and internal splines on the gear mesh with the splines on the input shaft. this coupling drives the output shaft direct 1:1 for road gear. The distance traveled for 5th to engage is about 1.2 the distance of any other gear. The splines wear out on both the sliding gear and the input shaft. they also develop a bit of taper that aggravates the staying in gear idea. Also involved is the intermediate bearing between the shafts. if it is loose the situation is aggravated. There can be some detent wear or rusty broken detent spring, but the fact is that many many operators shift from 4th to 5th on the fly wide open and rake the lever into 5th grinding a few. this, repeated 4000 times is the real issue. Both input shafts, and 4th/5th slider are available. Part 40 and 47 The PartsASAP (this site) sells them. Jim

 

[used red MN]

If the “pilot” bearing between the input shaft and the main shaft has a lot of wear, this also contributes to this problem. Number 38 in the link. CNHI Farmall H trans parts diagram

 

[tomturkey]

The parts

The fifth gear is a direct drive through the transmission from front to back. this involves a sliding 4/5th sliding gear, and splines on the input shaft. See link in blue for image. The sliding gear is used for 4th and is slid rearward to do that meshing with the matching gear on the bottom (counter) shaft. In 5th, that gear is slid forward and internal splines on the gear mesh with the splines on the input shaft. this coupling drives the output shaft direct 1:1 for road gear. The distance traveled for 5th to engage is about 1.2 the distance of any other gear. The splines wear out on both the sliding gear and the input shaft. they also develop a bit of taper that aggravates the staying in gear idea. Also involved is the intermediate bearing between the shafts. if it is loose the situation is aggravated. There can be some detent wear or rusty broken detent spring, but the fact is that many many operators shift from 4th to 5th on the fly wide open and rake the lever into 5th grinding a few. this, repeated 4000 times is the real issue. Both input shafts, and 4th/5th slider are available. Part 40 and 47 The PartsASAP (this site) sells them. Jim

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the goings on in the transmission to accomplish road gear. When I click on your link it takes me to the CIH page, but I cannot, or do not know how, to make the image in the box large enough to really see anything. I guess I'm in need of some computer training. I welcome all advice and teaching. Maybe this ole dog can learn a new trick. gobble

 

[used red MN]

Thank you for the detailed explanation of the goings on in the transmission to accomplish road gear. When I click on your link it takes me to the CIH page, but I cannot, or do not know how, to make the image in the box large enough to really see anything. I guess I'm in need of some computer training. I welcome all advice and teaching. Maybe this ole dog can learn a new trick. gobble

There is a plus sign and minus sign at the top left, click the plus to enlarge the view in the diagram. Or place your mouse pointer over the diagram and scroll the wheel. To grab the diagram and move it, place your mouse pointer over the diagram and hold the left mouse button down and move it around, release button to let go. This is in a Microsoft Edge browser, it is possible other browsers may respond slightly different. Clicking the “Farmall H -Tractor…” to the right of the house will take you to the main index to see all the parts sections for your tractor. Don’t worry you can always come back to the links in this post to get back to the transmission diagram. It is in the “Chassis” Function Group, subsection 112. Double click the small preview diagram to open it.

 

[tn terry t]

Super H will not hold in 5th gear on its own. Operator must hold it in position or wrap a bungee cord to secure it there. Am I dealing with a shift rail problem or possibly a worn gear. Any help will be appreciated. thank you. gobble

the shifter cross pin was worn badly on my 49 giving it just enough slop for it to slip out of fifth i could hold it in gear with two fingers

 

[tomturkey]

There is a plus sign and minus sign at the top left, click the plus to enlarge the view in the diagram. Or place your mouse pointer over the diagram and scroll the wheel. To grab the diagram and move it, place your mouse pointer over the diagram and hold the left mouse button down and move it around, release button to let go. This is in a Microsoft Edge browser, it is possible other browsers may respond slightly different. Clicking the “Farmall H -Tractor…” to the right of the house will take you to the main index to see all the parts sections for your tractor. Don’t worry you can always come back to the links in this post to get back to the transmission diagram. It is in the “Chassis” Function Group, subsection 112. Double click the small preview diagram to open it.

Thanks for the tutorial, I'm learning. gobble

 

[Oldiron29]

The parts

The fifth gear is a direct drive through the transmission from front to back. this involves a sliding 4/5th sliding gear, and splines on the input shaft. See link in blue for image. The sliding gear is used for 4th and is slid rearward to do that meshing with the matching gear on the bottom (counter) shaft. In 5th, that gear is slid forward and internal splines on the gear mesh with the splines on the input shaft. this coupling drives the output shaft direct 1:1 for road gear. The distance traveled for 5th to engage is about 1.2 the distance of any other gear. The splines wear out on both the sliding gear and the input shaft. they also develop a bit of taper that aggravates the staying in gear idea. Also involved is the intermediate bearing between the shafts. if it is loose the situation is aggravated. There can be some detent wear or rusty broken detent spring, but the fact is that many many operators shift from 4th to 5th on the fly wide open and rake the lever into 5th grinding a few. this, repeated 4000 times is the real issue. Both input shafts, and 4th/5th slider are available. Part 40 and 47 The PartsASAP (this site) sells them. Jim

I agree with Jim 4/5 sliding gear could be worn bad and shaft bearing must be true or shaft spins out and gear jumps out. Both together.

 

[D Slater]

Super H will not hold in 5th gear on its own. Operator must hold it in position or wrap a bungee cord to secure it there. Am I dealing with a shift rail problem or possibly a worn gear. Any help will be appreciated. thank you. gobble

Could be confusing with heading of post Farmall H, then saying SH in post. If being directed to H parts and tractor is a SH the 4 and 5 slider has a different number of teeth to match up to lower gear that drives it.

 

[tomturkey]

Could be confusing with heading of post Farmall H, then saying SH in post. If being directed to H parts and tractor is a SH the 4 and 5 slider has a different number of teeth to match up to lower gear that drives it.

D. I did not know that, thought the cid was more and resulting HP that made it a super. Your saying 4/5th gear has a different part number than a regular H??? Thanks for your reply. Anyone else experienced with this statement.?

 

[Janicholson]

D. I did not know that, thought the cid was more and resulting HP that made it a super. Your saying 4/5th gear has a different part number than a regular H??? Thanks for your reply. Anyone else experienced with this statement.?

Believe it it is true. Super H moves at different ratios than an H Jim

 

[used red MN]

Mr. Slater is correct. The Super H 4th gear is faster. Regular H 5.1 mph, Super H 6.6 mph.
Here is the Super H parts diagrams. CNHI Super H parts diagrams. If you are thinking about doing any swapping the lower gear has to match as well.

 

[tomturkey]

Mr. Slater is correct. The Super H 4th gear is faster. Regular H 5.1 mph, Super H 6.6 mph.
Here is the Super H parts diagrams. CNHI Super H parts diagrams. If you are thinking about doing any swapping the lower gear has to match as well.

Would you happen to have any part numbers for those gears, are we talking about 3rd and 4th and the sliding 4th and 5th. that is what your saying?? I have taken the top off of the transmission yet, want to to have my thoughts together when I get to that point. I could not find a super H 4/5th siding gear at asap??? parts diagram did not call out the 4/5th gear with spline and tooth. ASAP had a 3rd and 4th and the sliding 4th and 5th but that was an 18-35 gear which is what is called out for a regular H, I think. I may be totally confused by all this. But I sure do appreciate your expertise and willingness to share. thanks to all gobble

 

[D Slater]

D. I did not know that, thought the cid was more and resulting HP that made it a super. Your saying 4/5th gear has a different part number than a regular H??? Thanks for your reply. Anyone else experienced with this statement.?

Two numbers were optional to use for fourth and fifth slider, 358218R1 and 358023R1. For H and SH tractors with standard gear ratio the only speed gear the same is first sliding gear. looking in the transmission notice all gears on lower shaft except the constant mesh gear are one piece double gears. 1and 2 speed are together and 3 and 4 also. SH ratio gears 2, 3, and 4 are a different ratio than a H. 2 and 3 gear on top shaft is made in one piece. Due to double gears no one gear ratio can be changed unless all match. Example if you change 4 and 5 slider to a different ratio and change lower gear to match it the lower gear won't match the third speed and continues on back. Since H and SH have a different ratio and second on lower shaft drives the reverse idler gear the SH idler gear on forward end has different teeth count than a H. Probably hard to understand what I'm trying to explain.

 

[Janicholson]

Would you happen to have any part numbers for those gears, are we talking about 3rd and 4th and the sliding 4th and 5th. that is what your saying?? I have taken the top off of the transmission yet, want to to have my thoughts together when I get to that point. I could not find a super H 4/5th siding gear at asap??? parts diagram did not call out the 4/5th gear with spline and tooth. ASAP had a 3rd and 4th and the sliding 4th and 5th but that was an 18-35 gear which is what is called out for a regular H, I think. I may be totally confused by all this. But I sure do appreciate your expertise and willingness to share. thanks to all gobble

Parts diagram SH

This diagram should help find Numbers. Jim

 

[used red MN]

Parts diagram SH

This diagram should help find Numbers. Jim

Jim, you always have to remember that a Messicks link does not take you to the page you link, it drops you at home page for the machine. That is why I use the CNHI parts catalog for links. Unfortunately it does not include the dropped PNs as the Messicks one does. So rock and hard place.
Tom, DSlater covered the part numbers. It would be nice to know if you have a regular H or a Super, you seem to be indicating Super. In Jim’s link the Category is “12 Chassis” and the Diagram is “104 Transmission …”

 

[Janicholson]

Jim, you always have to remember that a Messicks link does not take you to the page you link, it drops you at home page for the machine. That is why I use the CNHI parts catalog for links. Unfortunately it does not include the dropped PNs as the Messicks one does. So rock and hard place.
Tom, DSlater covered the part numbers. It would be nice to know if you have a regular H or a Super, you seem to be indicating Super. In Jim’s link the Category is “12 Chassis” and the Diagram is “104 Transmission …”

Thanks, I never went backwards in the link. Jim

 

[used red MN]

Thanks, I never went backwards in the link. Jim

No problem, I think I have mentioned this to you before, I know how the old grey matter works or doesn’t some times.

 

[tomturkey]

D. Slater, used red MN, Janicholson, and others, I did not type correctly, I do not have the top off of the transmission yet. After reading all of this and coming to the realization that this gear swapping in the SH is probably not gonna happen, unless of course I can find a 4th/5th slider from or for a Super H. we will see, I will post back once I get the top off and can inspect the gear and the shift rail, I already know the shifter is sloppy so maybe it could be the simplest thing. I will post back after I have eyes on the issue. thanks to each of you

 

[caterpillar guy]

For places to try for gears there is J.P.Tractor Salvage in Fredricktown MO, All State Ag Parts with several yards in the middle of the country ,Worthington Ag Parts, and Bate Corp in Bourbon IN . I list them last as I find them rather pricey compared to most other places . There is Still Harvey Gross in MI if he has not retired and got out of the parts business. He is also an A&I dealer if they had the pieces they would be new parts.