Fiat Renault proposed merger

[Sekelbos]

Reading about this proposal today.I wonder what will happen to CNH if such a merger will be concluded?

 

[SVcummins]

Fiat wanted to dump cnh several years ago couldn?t find anyone who wanted it

 

[JD Seller]

The Fiat auto division has been hard pressed to turn a profit in the past years. Fiat is sometimes cash starved. The agriculture/construction division CNH, has been a consistent profit maker but ties up a large amount of capital. Fiat has talked about selling CNH just to generate capital for the auto division.

The trouble is there are few companies or investors that are interested because of the huge amount of capital required for the purchase as outlined in the past. Also there is a political component as the Italian government is part owner of Fiat. This often seems to push the auto division as a higher priority as there are more jobs in Fiat's European auto plants than the CNH plants.

I think if the Fiat/Renault merger happens than the possibility of CNH being sold is greater just because of monetary demands on Fiat as a company. Also world wide commodity prices seem to be dropping which will make it hard to keep the new equipment sales volume up.

 

[Bruce from Can.]

CNHR ? RCNH ? Maybe CRNH, they just need a company that starts with a O , drop the H and they could build CORN combines and CORN tractors. Might help sales in the mid west.

 

[Billy Shafer]

For us that don't know what is CNH. I think Fiat has always been in trouble.

 

[Bret4207]

Case/New Holland. Renault and Fiat are 2 companies that wouldn't exist without massive corporate welfare in their respective home countries.

 

[jm.]

Fiat really has a problem with the case new Holland thing. In the us north east where New Holland was big the Ford tractors are still strong, but Out in mid west where farms are larger the case IH brand is strong along with the Case combine also is a money maker. They would like to combine the brands but just really no way and the one company with money to make the deal KUBOTA had just a soon just wait it out and see when they decide something has to be done. No secrete that Kubota would like the red side but no intrastate in the blue tractors. IF FIAT does absorb Renault I am like JD seller think it will just speed up the dumping of the ag. division.

 

[Dean]

If they include Yugo, it will be a trifecta....

Dean

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:45:33 05/28/19) If they include Yugo, it will be a trifecta....

Dean

ough to make the deal and keep the French, Italians, Americans, Japanese , multiple unions happy. What are the odds?

 

[Texasmark1]

I recall the Renault back in the '60's. Had a cross mounted 4 banger as I recall...something odd about the design...been too long ago to remember. Guys in my outfit had a few. Great little cars and great on the wallet. Also remember the Citroen, a funny looking but extremely well designed and built sedan, remembering the rear tires were closer together than the fronts and the wheelbase was at the extremity of the vehicle, both aspects for great handling.

 

[SVcummins]

Case new holland global

 

[NY 986]

The talk I had heard a few years ago was that once the commodities boom was over CNH was going to streamline things in terms of products and dealers. Here in New York we have two large dealer organizations carrying a heavy overlap of products in the same territory. Given the slump that dairy and grains are in there is great pressure on each organization to survive with only enough business for one.


Kubota was the talk several years ago to buy CNH but in the mean time has bought Kverneland and Great Plains to name a couple of companies. How useful is CNH going to be to Kubota? It used to be sacrilegious to say a company could exist without building box/beater type manure spreaders, 2 row pull type forage harvester, and 14X18 inch small square balers but those products are not very relevant to today's purchasing farmers. Kubota has Tractors, hay equipment, and tillage plus planting equipment with needing a combine the biggest issue. Do they work with Claas or do they buy the combine production away from CNH? Dealer representation was important back in 1984 when Case bought IH in terms of having a dealer every 20 miles here in NY. Kubota would have plenty of dealers as it stands here in NY and a number were old hands at IH, White, or some other line that was relevant to most farmers.

 

[oldtanker]

Interesting.

CIH/NH indeed has been offered up. Several things had hampered the sale. The biggest problem is the sheer size. FIAT has announced several times it would have to be an all of nothing sale. Another problem there is most investors expect international companies to return a certain profit margin. While CIH/NH does make a profit it's normally 2-3% below what most investors find acceptable.

An interesting notion that Renault made/makes a decent car. I did my first hitch in Germany in the mid 70's. That was one of the first things older soldiers would tell younger guys was to stay away from Renault cars. Not only because of reliability but also because of major safety concerns.

Anyone beside me remember Renault's last attempt to break into the US market? Timing couldn't have been better. Just a few years after the Fuel Embargo 1979. Americans were demanding fuel efficient cars. GM, Ford, Chrysler and AMC were not really meeting the demand. The Carter/Reagan recession was just starting. And Renault was thinking that buying AMC would give them an established American dealership network. Then the Renault cars quickly gained such a poor reputation that they didn't gain the sales needed. Renault then withdrew from the US market and sold what was left (Jeep and Eagle) in 87.

FIAT has had trouble in world markets, not just the US. Fiat like Renault in 1979 acquired an established American company when the US government forced the sale of Chrysler to FIAT. One of the big reasons for that purchase was to gain an established dealer network and yet another FIAT attempt on US markets. While Chrysler branded vehicles are making a profit for FIAT, Fiat branded sales in the US are not doing well. The peak figure sense being introduced in the US was 46,171. Last year that dropped to 15,521.

Rick

FIAT owns FIAT, CaseIH/NH, Iveco, Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Maserati, and all Chrysler brands including Jeep, Dodge, RAM, and SRT.

 

[Billy Shafer]

Thanks.

 

[whereswaldo]

Texasmark1. The Renault had an inline 4 rear engine. First car was a 1960 Dauphine and it was reliable. Not fast but fantastic on gasoline. 30 MPG around town. They used the same design until 1967 when they discontinued the rear engine cars. That year they started using alternators for the charging system. I could use the hand crank if the battery ran down, as the generator had enuf residual magnetism to make a spark. I still have two Caravelles-their convertible hardtop design that the Ford Mustang actually copied. Caravelle came out in 1957.

 

[SVcummins]

Before cnh global it was case ih and ford new holland well they merged em together the anti monopoly laws made the new company sell off some names that?s when you saw the versatile name come back and others

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Also Chrysler and General Motors,at least the Italian Gov't had sense enough to hang onto their share of Fiat instead of giving it away.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Maybe the Fiat folks will find another sucker like they found in GM: Make a deal to sell CNH, then force the prospective buyer to pay through the nose to get out of the deal. It cost GM 2 billion to back out of its deal to acquire Fiat.

 

[Texasmark1]

That's what was different about them; locating the engine in the rear. Do recall them being the Dauphine now that you mention it. Thanks.

 

[David Snipes]

I've never had a Fiat car but my cousin in Germany says it stands for, "Fix It Again, Tony".

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 12:46:14 05/28/19) Also Chrysler and General Motors,at least the Italian Gov't had sense enough to hang onto their share of Fiat instead of giving it away.

The government made an illegal grab at partial ownership in GM and was forced by the courts to sell those shares. Because of the timing of the forced sale by the courts the government lost money. All brought to you by MR hope and chains.

Rick

 

[Alvin 41]

These posts are better than the car magazines and the Wall Street Journal . My addition is that I believe that the Agnelli family is the majority owner of CNH industrial and Fiat-Chrysler. The late 1950's VW beetle was superior to the Dauphine which was better than the Fiat 600 or the small front engine Enghish Ford. The later 60's Renault R-16 was a very good front drive sedan and the Citroen ID's were expensive and very advanced in design (Credited with saving De Gaulle by jacking up suspension and driving off after ambushers shot out tires). most humorus Fiat incident was helping lift a 500 (2 cyl rear drive 1000#)out of a large bush after it had scidded off an icy curve in. Madison WI

 

[SVcummins]

😂😂😂

 

[oldtanker]

(quoted from post at 18:08:31 05/29/19) These posts are better than the car magazines and the Wall Street Journal . My addition is that I believe that the Agnelli family is the majority owner of CNH industrial and Fiat-Chrysler. The late 1950's VW beetle was superior to the Dauphine which was better than the Fiat 600 or the small front engine Enghish Ford. The later 60's Renault R-16 was a very good front drive sedan and the Citroen ID's were expensive and very advanced in design (Credited with saving De Gaulle by jacking up suspension and driving off after ambushers shot out tires). most humorus Fiat incident was helping lift a 500 (2 cyl rear drive 1000#)out of a large bush after it had scidded off an icy curve in. Madison WI

If they were so good why couldn't Renault be successful in the US? Heck the timing was perfect. Fuel prices through the roof, recession just starting. And they bought into an existing dealer network? And fail inside of 8 years?

The later Citroen wasn't well tough of either. 3 tours in Germany and you saw a fair number of foreign cars. French, Italian, Swedish and British. At the time, all 3 tours I was involved with the German-American stock car association. Talk to the German crews. None of them thought much of French or Italian cars. What was really surprising was how few Germans owned French made cars. Most often they were old ones as that was all they could afford. Now last time I was in France there were a large number of German cars on the roads with French plates on them.

Kinda like this: 1982 Renault Fuego: A fragile front-drive coupe that rusted quickly into dust or burst into flames amid random electrical fires. It was recalled for steering wheels that came off in drivers' hands. Or this: 1983 Renault Alliance: An AMC-built, Americanized version of the front-drive, 60-hp Renault 9 subcompact complete with monochrome paint and whitewalls. Worse, in '85 came a convertible so droopy the doors often couldn't close.

Same thing with the FIATs today. Why are they not selling? I recall Mr Hope and Chains saying in a speech that FIAT could sell cars in the US because they had the "fuel efficiency and technology Americans want"! And their best sales year was 46,XXX cars? Not they have achieved a whopping 15,XXX for the last year? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Really wanna laugh? Go look up what the car publications named as car of the year and what the long term view of such vehicles? Some included as car of the year are the Vega, Pinto and AMC Pacer.

Rick