Help with my 1958 J.I. Case 420B Industrial

[Gigs]

Hi, I recently bought a 1958 Case 420B loader/backhoe. The engine runs well and the machine is capable of doing work, but I'd like to repair two things that aren't working: the brakes and the power steering. As for the power steering, I have the belt to install. One hose had a cut in it, so I need to replace that and probably should replace the other two hoses as well. I see it takes ATF. Does it matter what kind? I'm sure I've got some ATF-4 around. Anything I should be cautious about before replacing the belt and hose, filling up the reservoir and seeing if the power steering works?

As for the brakes, I'm not certain where to start yet. I've been doing a little searching haven't found anyone doing brakes on this model.

 

[chuck machinist]

(quoted from post at 20:59:04 12/27/23) Hi, I recently bought a 1958 Case 420B loader/backhoe. The engine runs well and the machine is capable of doing work, but I'd like to repair two things that aren't working: the brakes and the power steering. As for the power steering, I have the belt to install. One hose had a cut in it, so I need to replace that and probably should replace the other two hoses as well. I see it takes ATF. Does it matter what kind? I'm sure I've got some ATF-4 around. Anything I should be cautious about before replacing the belt and hose, filling up the reservoir and seeing if the power steering works?

As for the brakes, I'm not certain where to start yet. I've been doing a little searching haven't found anyone doing brakes on this model.

I have completed these two items you speak of several years ago. First ,I would replace the filter in the pwr steering reservoir, as it is probably collapsed or plugged. John Saeli 315-585-9826 has that filter. The brakes are pretty straight forward, Tear down as per what the service manual states. John also has that service, and parts manual. Let me know what other issues exist. Chuck Machinist

 

[Gigs]

Chuck, thanks for that info. Very helpful. I didn't know about the power steering pump filter. I'll give John a ring tomorrow and order those items. Maybe he has the right hoses as well. I was thinking about trying an auto parts store to see if what I need might be generic enough to be available there. I'm not terribly concerned right now about having a machine with only accurate parts. This machine is a user, and I need it to do some work.

I have completed these two items you speak of several years ago. First ,I would replace the filter in the pwr steering reservoir, as it is probably collapsed or plugged. John Saeli 315-585-9826 has that filter. The brakes are pretty straight forward, Tear down as per what the service manual states. John also has that service, and parts manual. Let me know what other issues exist. Chuck Machinist

 

[Gigs]

Well, I'm going to need some more advice. Hopefully one of you can help. I'm changing the fluid for the torque converter because a check of the dipstick showed there was water in it. It looked like milk. So, I have two issues at this point. First the small pipe plug that holds fluid inside the torque converter was rounded out when I got in there. I've started drilling with left-handed bits, and some ez outs, but no luck so far. I think I will eventually get it. But if someone has been through this before and has a unique solution, I'd welcome that.

Second, towards the rear, there is a drain plug for the dual-range housing. After draining fluid, I noticed something up there, and I fished out two pieces of rubber. Attached is a photo. Any idea what that is, and what it means for my fluid change?

I should mention that the Case 420B is about 90 minutes from home on a second property, so I unfortunately can't just get out to it at a moment's notice.

 

[4435]

Have been able to remove many recessed fasteners and plugs using torx bit. Find one that drives in very tight. Tom

 

[used red MN]

Well, I'm going to need some more advice. Hopefully one of you can help. I'm changing the fluid for the torque converter because a check of the dipstick showed there was water in it. It looked like milk. So, I have two issues at this point. First the small pipe plug that holds fluid inside the torque converter was rounded out when I got in there. I've started drilling with left-handed bits, and some ez outs, but no luck so far. I think I will eventually get it. But if someone has been through this before and has a unique solution, I'd welcome that.

Second, towards the rear, there is a drain plug for the dual-range housing. After draining fluid, I noticed something up there, and I fished out two pieces of rubber. Attached is a photo. Any idea what that is, and what it means for my fluid change?

I should mention that the Case 420B is about 90 minutes from home on a second property, so I unfortunately can't just get out to it at a moment's notice.

I don’t know anything specific about your tractor, what kind of access it there to this plug. Are you working through just a small hole? Then to clarify this is a “Allen” internal hex plug? My suggestion would be a welder. Weld a washer to it and then a nut to the washer. If you do this you will need to find a way to ground the welder direct to the torque converter. Depending on access this might mean bolting a strap iron to a converter bolt so it sticks down to allow the ground to clamp on it.

 

[Gigs]

I don’t know anything specific about your tractor, what kind of access it there to this plug. Are you working through just a small hole? Then to clarify this is a “Allen” internal hex plug? My suggestion would be a welder. Weld a washer to it and then a nut to the washer. If you do this you will need to find a way to ground the welder direct to the torque converter. Depending on access this might mean bolting a strap iron to a converter bolt so it sticks down to allow the ground to clamp on it.

Yes, you're correct about it being through a small access hole. And yes it is an internal hex/allen key. I'm hoping I'll be able to get it off via another method first, but I appreciate your suggestion. Hopefully it won't come to the point that I have to try your welding method. I'm not an experienced welder, and the steps you suggested will all probably need to be followed. It would be a little complicated.

 

[Gigs]

Have been able to remove many recessed fasteners and plugs using torx bit. Find one that drives in very tight. Tom

Thanks. I did try that, but it may be worth another shot. I'm hoping to get out to the tractor on Sunday and see if I can get the plug removed.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

A light tat, tap, tap, and progressing with an impact if you can hook it up to the easy-out or similar often works with npt plugs. Careful not to fracture the easy-out.

 

[Gigs]

This all started because the fluid was milky, so I knew water was mixed in. I hope I will drain enough of the old fluid out, but, would you all recommend filling it up, running it a bit, then draining it all one more time to try to get as much bad fluid out as possible?

 

[Gigs]

Well, me an a mechanically-inclined friend tried a lot of stuff for most of the day yesterday. No luck. It seemed like we might get it several times. And it is tough to see the plug at the time you are trying to remove it since it is a few inches through the hole of the main drain plug. So, you don't get any visual confirmation that it is moving. I was trying to exhaust all possibilities before drilling through it to use an EZ Out, because at least as it is now, I could button it all up, fill the reservoir, and run the machine. If I put a hole in that plug and still can't remove it, there really isn't any going back.

Plus, the EZ Out I have will be too far into the drain plug hole to get a tap hand on. So, I could get a set of special sockets that will go on a ratchet or breaker bar. But, we tried two Advance Auto Parts stores that said they had one in stock, and sadly, neither really did. We were losing light, so we had to stop for the day.

Also, if anyone has any insight into how water might get into there in the first place, or what those rubber ring pieces look like they might be, I'd love to read your thoughts. I don't think it is coolant that got it because the coolant under the radiator cap looks pristine and full. I would expect contamination in there if it was a problem with the torque converter fluid's cooler in the bottom of the radiator. But may I am wrong and it doesn't work as I expect.

 

[Mike Fitz]

What are the clearances to internal parts of the torque converter? Could drilling through and using an easy out cause more damage? I think I'd just do a couple of oil changes first to see if you can get the oil to be acceptably clean.

 

[Gigs]

Thanks for that, Mike. Honestly, I don't know about those clearances, but I will take a look in the service manual to see if I can tell.

 

[jean claude marleau]

Well, I'm going to need some more advice. Hopefully one of you can help. I'm changing the fluid for the torque converter because a check of the dipstick showed there was water in it. It looked like milk. So, I have two issues at this point. First the small pipe plug that holds fluid inside the torque converter was rounded out when I got in there. I've started drilling with left-handed bits, and some ez outs, but no luck so far. I think I will eventually get it. But if someone has been through this before and has a unique solution, I'd welcome that.

Second, towards the rear, there is a drain plug for the dual-range housing. After draining fluid, I noticed something up there, and I fished out two pieces of rubber. Attached is a photo. Any idea what that is, and what it means for my fluid change?

I should mention that the Case 420B is about 90 minutes from home on a second property, so I unfortunately can't just get out to it at a moment's notice.

That piece of Rubber I suspect might be the big seal that goes around your torque converter.

 

[jean claude marleau]

Gigs , when you bought the tractor how long was thias item sitting . Water only has two sources one is the rubber protector on the gear shift lever if it did not have a cab and secondly if you live in an area with big difference in temperature metal cold and warm create condensation.

 

[Gigs]

Jean Claude, it had been sitting for about three months. And yes, no cab on this machine. The engine fired up fairly easily when the seller turned the key, which was encouraging. It had been outside, but under a tarp. It is possible water leaked in from the gear shifter, but I'm not sure. I'm still pretty new to this machine. I had no issues getting it to engage the first few times. No problem at all going forward or reverse. I've kept it tarped, and one thing I will say is that, during a very heavy and windy storm, the tarp did blow off somewhat. I came by a week after that must have happened. I don't know if that was enough to cause what I saw. Maybe. Maybe it had water in there when I bought it and since these things are built like tanks, it still ran fine. I'm hoping to get back out there this weekend and get that dang plug out. Once that is accomplished, I can at least move forward. But I'd sure like to avoid getting water in here again.

 

[LPakiz]

x2 on the Torx bit as an Easy-Out. Do not use a "spiral" type of Easy-Out on any thin-wall removal attempt. The spiral shape expands the hole you drilled until it either grips the plug or it cracks it, thus locking the plug in tighter. The Torx bit actually "broaches" the ID of your stuck plug to drive it, and it doesn't further expand the plug you are attempting to remove. Another advantage is the Torx bit is hex shaped, so any socket will drive it. Various sizes are available.
You may be able to loosen the plug a bit by tapping on the metal around it and on the plug itself. I realize it's upside down, so that makes it tougher. Do you have air pressure and a "zip" gun with a blunt bit? Vibration may help you here. Vibration AND torque are better yet!
I, too, would try everything before drilling a hole thru it. As you noted, there's no going back from that.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I agree Torx bit is much better than Easyout. Plus you can go both ways tight & loose as you are going to clean the threads on the way out to prevent galling the threads. A low pressure impact will jar the plug in both directions. Going tighter sometimes is easier to break the initial bonding to get a little wiggle room.