Old iron verses newer iron???

[JD Seller]

In John B. earlier post many were saying they would not own anything newer as they could not work on it,they are too unreliable, etc.

In a small way that is kind of funny. The reason being that many of you actually believe a tractor made sixty years ago( Farmall "H" 1939 to 1953) is more reliable/easy to work on than newer equipment.

There are a whole lot of newer tractors that have zero electronics and little plastic. They may not be NEW but they sure are a lot newer than a Farmall "H".

Lets just go 15 years newer. A Ford 3000 is a much more user friendly tractor than a IH "H". It could have factory power steering, live PTO and factory three point. Plus more gears in the work range and ten times easier to get on an off of if your older. Also ZERO electronics and little plastic. This tractor series has proven itself as one of the most rugged utility tractors ever made.

Then lets go a little bigger, 90-100 HP. So you would have to go 20 years newer but then you get several brands and models that are proven good tractors. The JD 4020 is one of them. Many are still in daily use on many farms around the world. If you like a different "green" then the Oliver 1850 diesel with the Perkins motor is a real nice tractor too. IF you like "RED" then the IH 856 is a good choice, good motor and not a bad operating tractor.

Then lets talk about operator comfort and safety. When it is zero out side I am sure not going out and plow/blow snow with a two banger JD or an IH "M". I will grab a JD tractor with a Sound guard cab on it. Right now that is a JD 4450, warm, quite cab, and ZERO computers(analog gauges). For keeping the operator comfortable the IH 86 series cab was not bad just not the best shifting. The White cabs where fairly good too, just kind of narrow. Allis Chalmers did not really get a good cab until the 8000 series an by then it was too late for the company.

So guys be honest here. The brand new stuff may not be easy to work on and have a lot of chancy plastic/light steel but you do not have to go back 60 years to get a tractor that is fairly easy to work on and is very reliable.

I remember when the IH "Ms" and Ford 8Ns where in daily use. They had to be worked on regularly to keep them in working condition. A Ford 8N would need overhauled every 4-5 years if you really worked them hard. That was just an in frame sleeve, bearings, pistons and such. Not hard to do but still needed to be done.

I have and use daily a 1992 JD 6400 MFWD loader tractor. It just turned over 17,250 hours. Those are not babied around hours either, it is a livestock loader tractor. In that time I have replaced: the following:
(1) head gasket it had 15,000 hours on it then. I did go through the cylinder head and replace the injectors just because I had the head off.

(1) clutch at around 12K. I did replace the transmission input shaft and drive shaft at that time as the splines where worn.

(2) alternators and three batteries

(3) PTO engagement switches

(3) Sets of tires

A few hydraulic lines/hoses but not more than 2-3.

Plus changed the engine oil at 150 hours regularly. The hydraulic filters at every 300 hours. The hydraulic oil at every 600 hours.

That is not much work on a tractor that has sure earned its keep daily for 23 years.

They are IH 806s around here that are into the mid teens on hours with maybe a TA and engine overhaul.

I know of two Ford 5000s that are over 10k in hours and have not been touched at all.

So it is not just one brand either. There are many dependable, operator friendly, tractors that are way newer than a Farmall "H".

As for John B mowing 4 acres of grass every week with a Farmall "H". There are a lot of mowing machines out there that last and are much more comfortable than a Farmall "H" with a belly mower. One of these would be a JD 425 or 445 garden tractor. One of these with a 60 inch deck would mow the grass much faster than the "H". I know of several of these that have thousands of hours on them.

As for the new stuff. I was just at a neighbor's that farms BIG. They have a 2007 JD 8330.(225 PTO HP) It has 12,000 hours on it. Those hours are HEAVY tillage hours too. They have had few repairs on it. They where replacing the plastic hood as it was cracked from the heat of the turbo/exhaust manifold. That was $5000 just for the hood and no used ones to be found. If you figure the cost per hour, and acres covered, on the tractor it is still way cheaper than the old tractors of days gone by. The owner is a super record keeper. He has kept the cost per hour of use and acres covered on his tractors clear back into the 1970s. He told me the JD 8330 is the cheapest per acre tractor he has ever owned.

So keep that in mind when you hear of 10-15K repair bills. These newer machines are covering many more acres than the stuff just 15 years old.

In the 1970s era JD 00 series combine we figured 4-5 acres per hour for harvesting corn. Then in the 1980s with the 20 series JD combines we figured 6-7 acres per hour. In the 1990s the 9000 series combines where up to 12-15 acres an hour. The new "R" series combines can be in the 20-25 acres an hour in corn. So a combine that has a thousand separator hours could easily have harvested 15-20 thousand acres of crop. That is more than many older machines harvested in there entire operating life time.

So keep enjoying your older iron. I have some as well that I "play" with for the enjoyment but when it comes serious work time it is not going to be a 50-60 year old tractor going to the field.

 

[Texasmark1]

Agree with the 3000 Ford. Have one and is a good utility tractor and a miser on diesel.

 

[Russ from MN]

I agree! We have a 2001 JD 4600 that has been 0 problems. The original battery was gassing and corroding nearby metal so the dealer gave us a JD Strongbox, and it's over 11 years old. It set all winter and started right up. I think the tractor would start well below 0 F but I always plug it in if it's even close to 0, so it doesn't smoke so bad in the garage. We bought a new 6 foot Bush Hog last spring and that really works it!
We have an old Farmall C with a Woods belly mower for the yard and some parades but newer is better.

 

[rankrank1]

Agree with much of what you said. That all said, you have to realize that compared to many on this site you are a BTO even though you do necessarily consider yourself as such.

I piddle with a Farmall h as well as a farmall m. I agree the Ford 3000 is much more modern and likely more reliable too. If someone will find me one for the $500 I have in my ole h or the $800 that I paid for the m then sign me up and I will buy one in a new York minute.

That said, there is cavitation to worry about on that Ford 3000 block if diesel, injector pump, injectors etc. Even if a gasser repairing the 2 stage clutch PTO clutch will cost more than buying both a farmall m and farmall h. One injector pump repair would sink my hobby budget.

For a piddle/hobby guy like me then cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and cheap to service and keep operational is paramount. The Farmall h amd m fit this requirement easily for me. I may have to tinker with them a bit but rarely need to spend money on them.

Now if I was a real farmer and farming some meaningful acreage then I would be having me some Oliver's 1850, 1650 and some Jd 4020's and 2520's or international 856, 806, etc. (all in diesel) for sure. If my cashflow deserved going newer then I would.

Its really all about cash flow your business or hobby generates. Mine generates very little cash flow so that means I stick with cheap tractors. Buying better stuff than I really need would mean pulling money from the family budget or my retirement budget. I have zero interest in having a better tractor to the detriment of either of those two factors. My ultimate is goal is to retire in my 50's - Not to own a better tractor than I really need.

 

[Lazy WP]

Great post!!! Right now I don't have anything that is newer then a 68, but I am not making a living with them either.
I never have understood why someone would put up with no live power, on a using tractor.

 

[Blackhole49]

People say the same thing about cars and trucks. But look at how much more reliable they are than the 60's or 70's. Back then, 100,000 miles was the life expectancy and ten years was the outside limit for the bodies in northern climates. Now, vehicles that are 10 years old with 100,000 miles are sought after used rides.

 

[David G]

I concur completely.

 

[John M]

My only response to that is most of the farmers in my area didn't have the money, that you apparently do, to buy this "newer" equipment. While those who did were scraping by to make the payments, we were putting money in the bank, and at less cost than buying something new.

 

[jm.]

JD I get chastised on here quite often for warning these new comers the pitfalls of OLD tractor ownership, so much I have about quit making my comments. JOE BLOW buys a 15 acre mini ranch and first thing he has to have a tractor. Goes out and finds a paint job overhauled Massey 135 for lets say bargain of 3 grand. Gets it home water pump leak , no big deal $ 85 repair. Next month needs brakes says he spend 2 hundred, then radiator or cultch. Year latter is standing at the dealer ship wanting a new Kubota. Wants to trade his 1500 dollar MF. What do you mean 1500 it has to be worth 55 hundred that is what I have in it. Hear the above pretty often. Hard to tell them what a mistake they have made. I know some folks get buy with old equipment and new is not for all but as you stated one sure needs to evaluate how much real WORK they want to do before making that purchase. Problem is now there is no place to sell those old tractors.

 

[NCWayne]

I agree, you don't have to go back 60 years to find a good 'analog' machine, and the "thousand" series Fords were great machines with far more features than say an old Jubilee.

Having said that, the newer machines often do make sense for a large operation, that do the volume of work necessary to generate the profits needed, to afford to keep the newer equipment. This allows them to buy new equipment often enough to either keep the equipment under warranty, and/or at least keep them at, or near the top of, the dealerships priority list. Without that, a minor breakdown can cost the small guy several days while he waits on the dealerships guy to get out to him.

As far as the hours on an older machine -vs- a newer machine, that often comes down to both the materials available when the machine was new, as well as the quality of the lubrication used in the engine.

I say this because the machine I replaced the plastic front cover on, as well as the one that had the leaking oil fill, was a JD 6400. It's not extremely old, and in this case didn't have a huge amount of hours. Thing is TIME was the problem when it came to the plastic parts. In the case of the filler neck it had basically shrunk. This left caused the metal tubes the bolts went through slightly longer than the material was thick. Between the extra thickness, and an o-ring that was as hard as a rock, it was pouring oil. I refaced the neck on a disc sander, put in a new o-ring, and problem solved. The front cover looked good, but leaked. Turned out it was where the cap that held in the spring on engine oil pressure relief valve screwed in. Again there was a metal insert, and the plastic had started cracking around the insert, I assume from the spring working against it all the time. There was no fixing it, and the fact that Deere decided to make the new ones out of aluminum tells me they realized they had a problem. I understand things break, and change all kinds of parts that are identical to the one that broke, However, to me, a company that does something blatantly stupid like making a part such as this out of plastic, and then remakes it right, should warranty their initial screw up through the life of the machine. By remaking it out of another material they clearly knew they messed up, and the owner would have problems..... but in the end it comes down to the customer/owner having to pay out of his pocket for t heir screw up, so it's not their problem. In any case, while the cover may have been cracked in just one area, it was as brittle as glass. In fact it snapped in two as I tried to get it to come off the locating dowels.

Ultimately, as I said, the new machines are OK for a company large enough to afford them. Sadly they were designed to be, and in fact are disposable. I've heard that now days a CAT machine is designed to last 10 years before being scrapped, and based on what I see that's often just about right. Often part of that designed obsolescence is related to the emissions, and when you throw in the 'maintenance free' part, things that shouldn't wear (but do) and can't be maintained (but should be) wind up costing more to repair than the machine's worth. Case in point, a neighbor told me last night about a backhoe that was worn excessively on the swing post. It was maybe a $4000-$6000 machine on a good day. They took it to the dealership to be looked at.....and they fixed it without bothering to call and let them know the cost. The repair wound up costing them nearly $7000. Two weeks later he said the turbo went out, shortly after that several other thing went wrong. In that case, and many others I've seen, the newer machines simply are not worth repairing and holding on to.

As far as wear on the engine, and other parts, GOOD lubrication plays a huge part in that. I've mentioned one of my customers who uses nothing but oil and grease from a place called Lubrication Engineers. He had a 3306 that was in a 235 CAT excavator working in a gravel pit/quarry. When electrolysis put a pinhole in a liner he decided to do a complete rebuild since it had been 12 years since the last one. If you average a 40 hour week for those years, and he often did more than that, it works out to nearly 25,000 hours. He ran nothing but LE oil in the machine from the day he got it. When we opened it up, the rods, mains, bores, and everything measurable in that engine was still at the high end of the standard. When the pump on his 345 excavator finally needed a rebuild it was just shy of 10,000 hours. The guys at the pump shop said those pumps usually got 5000, maybe 6000 hours before they needed to be rebuilt and asked me how he got such a long life out of it.

I've turned other customers on to LE's products, and use them myself. In all cases, just the use of really good oil and grease has more than made up for the extra cost involved in getting the good stuff. That return has been anything from cutting greasing intervals by two thirds over the competetion, to turbos lasting three to four times what they had been running other brands of oil. In the end it all adds up.

Now if you could just put good oil in the newer machines and get the same kind of return on life, it would be a good thing. The problem is the computers will still continue to be obsoleted, and the oil will never help. Nor will the typical independent ever be able to afford to buy all of the different, proprietary software necessary to work on all of the different brands of equipment. When, and if the construction and ag industrys could ever get their crap together and go with something like the OBD2 setups used in the automotive world, it would open up doors to all kinds of "affordable" new possibilities for us independents...


So, if you buy a newer machine, with all of the bells and whistles, you might as well plan to call the dealer, or park it. Personally, until that time comes, I'll just continue to use my God given computer to work on the old stuff.

 

[ndfarmer]

JD, I agree with what you've said even though my newer tractors are only a compact utility and two garden tractors. These have been maintenance free other than usual oil and filter changes. Most of my tractors are two cylinder other than a 2510, 3020 and a 2840. My 2002 John Deere 990 with a loader and 2000 425 were bought new. I have a 2002 x475 which I bought used with only 260 hours on it at that time. About four of my older tractors are money pits. Expensive hobby but then again this is what I like to do.

 

[Bruce from Can.]

I agree with JD Seller on most of these points. I too , own and use a mix of old and new tractors and equipment. Older tractors due many jobs equally as well as a new tractor will. But sometimes operator comfort and fatigue is the price you pay for going with the older iron, while saving$$$ on new stuff. I love to run my 30 series Case tractors but, I don't want to spend hot days on a open station tractor , while looking back at a round baler flicking chaff and dust in my face.
Four wheel drive is a must for loader work on my farm. While 4wd was an option in the 70's , not many where sold.So buying a 40 tear old 4wd tractor is unlikely. I make no apologies for having some new iron on my farm, I have too much to do to try to do it all jerking around with some old thumb buster like a M with a loader mouted on the front.

 

[Allan in NE]

I heard of a fella last week who bought a new tractor. $195K.

That is just plain retarded in my book. Heck even a 30 year old 7800 will still command $50K.

Allan

 

[JD Seller]

The thing people need to really think about is their budget and time they have to accomplish the work they want/need to do.

A person that has very limited mechanical abilities and has a demanding job might be better off buying a good newer tractor than a CHEAP old tractor.

I am not saying BRAND new but $4000-5000 will buy you a good utility tractor with live PTO and power steering.

 

[Spudm]

$100.00 per horsepower for a good used tractor. New ones are a $1,000.00 per horsepower. Tractors that are built for pennies on the dollar overseas, then shipped and sold here for big money.

 

[JD Seller]

John M. I am not saying by brand new stuff. Just better stuff than a 60 year old tractor.

As for not buying better equipment. I have seen many more farmers LOSE money with junk equipment than fellow that buy a little better USABLE equipment. A delay working on a tractor when corn needs planted or hay needs bales COSTS money too.

A hay cutting rained on can cut the value of it in half. So that "loss" is a cost that just does not show.

As for me "affording" newer equipment. When I bought the last new tractor I have ,the JD 6400, the 5000 hour loader tractors where bringing $15-20K. I bought this one new for $30K. The 5000 less hours only cost me $2 per hour. That is just good business.

The first ten years I owned this tractor it was the only loader I had. I did not have a skid steer either. Livestock chores took 2-3 hours morning and night. While working full time a the dealership. I did not have the time to "fix" break downs.

I am an absolute maintenance fanatic. Break downs in daily use cost you time and money both. I can't waste the time. So I try to spend my money before I HAVE a break down.

So buy what you can afford money wise and time wise too. A fellow making good money but working 50 hour weeks does not need a money pit to come home to.

 

[Bruce from Can.]

$1,000.00 per hp for new, and $100.00 per hp for old is more like it.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I agree JD.
One thing folks never take into account is their time. Take a guy who makes say, $50/hr and have him constantly have to work on an old tractor. That $ adds up in a hurry and by spending another $3, $4, or $5K up front on a newer/better tractor he would be way ahead of the game in the end.
And thanks for the plug for the old Fords.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

One point you over looked is there are some real deals to be had on very good older equipment especially if a person can do some basic repair work.I have an Oliver 1365 55HP that I paid $500 for sitting in a barn drove it on the trailer spent
about $200 in filters, oil and small things and worked on it for about 1 day have put about 1000 hrs on it and its still going strong.Try to match those economics with a newer tractors.Or the 1650 Oliver I gave $3000 for back in 2001 have used it mostly to bale hay and some other things only real work done on it was a new clutch.No way I'm going to have 10 or 15 thousand sitting in a tractor when I can buy one for 3K or under that does me just as good.Plus almost every tractor I own I could sell for as much or more as what I have in them so the use is free except for basic maintenance.

 

[2 Old 2 care]

Quite a few of those who post here are more or less "hobby farmers". For those guys, it's hard to justify new equipment.

For those who farm on a bigger scale, it's just as hard to justify old equipment.

As hard as it is for some people to admit, there are quite a few bigger, more modern farms that succeed on a level that some cannot fathom. They do so with newer, more modern, more productive equipment that cannot be equaled by what we all grew up with.

That's why there's a market for BOTH ends of the spectrum.

I own and operate a commercial mowing business (hi-way right-of-ways,etc) Since the inception of my business, I bought decent used tractors. The business did well. In the past 3 years, the entire fleet has been replaced with new tractors and mowers. I'm just now finishing my 2014 financials. Best year EVER. 2nd best was 2013. A few things play into that. Primarily is higher dependability of equipment, less down time.

 

[buickanddeere]

I remember the crusty old coots complaining that the new fangled , lightweight , high speed four and six cylinder JohnDeeres. That they would never last, be reliable or pull like a good old two cylinders. Those durn fool 4020's will never replace a 730 ,blah blah ,blah.

 

[WGM]

So, what exactly is your definition of a BTO?

 

[chuck machinist]

BIG TIME OPERATOR

 

[Tim(nj)]

I have some fairly new stuff, some really old stuff, and a bunch of stuff in between. It all depends on what it does and the return on what it does. I have my grandfather's old Jubilee. All it does these days is clip the sides of the lanes and the fields with a sicklebar mower, run a PTO corn elevator, a PTO auger, and once in a while pulls a hay rake. Doesn't get many hours a year anymore, but it works reliably with little to no downtime. I've had some wags criticize me for using that tractor, that I should by a new Kubota or Deere compact for that stuff. Why? That tractor's lack of features doesn't bother me for the limited work it does. It does those jobs for much less than the payment on a new tractor would be. Now if I needed a small loader tractor, and I needed to build fences, and do a lot of driveway and yard maintenance type stuff, spending a lot of hours on the tractor, where FWA, IPTO and hydraulic capacity was needed,that would be a different story.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I'm lucky to put 50 hrs on each of my old tractors, Farmall C and Jubilee. I Mow and push snow with both. I'm not a fan of diesels, which limits my options if I were to buy new. It's easy for me to keep the old girls running. Both engines were rebuilt before I got them. The Farmall was my mother's, which makes it priceless and my favorite.

It would cost me a pant load to buy new replacement tractors. And I do enjoy my old tractors. Both are in very good shape, don't burn oil, start in subzero temps.

 

[Lazy WP]

Which is what? Someone that farms 100 acres, maybe
500, or what?
There are so many guys on here that are no more
then hobby farmers, that even I am a BTO. I bale
upwards to 2000 little squares.
My opinion is in how they operate. I have seen guys
that farm less then 500 acres that are BTO
wannabes.

 

[Traditional Farmer]

And how about all those silly folks that said the New Coke wouldn't last or the Edsel wasn't going to sell? And gosh how about those folks that said they didn't think the Ford Select-O-Matic was such a good idea.

 

[notjustair]

I agree with most everything said. My chore tractors are a 4020 and a Farmall M. I use the M for some jobs and the 4020 for others. The M is narrow front and I love the maneuverability but if I am feeding bales after a rain I don't use it - the front wheels hit the same mud hole at the same time. No good. I have never done anything other than service it since I got it years ago.

The 4440 isn't electrical- I can do anything on it. It is hitting the age where it is needing a few things. It is just about to roll 10K hours. It sprays, hays, and drills wheat. Good solid tractor I will drive to my grave. I put about 125 hours on it a year. The 8430 is also mechanical but the cab is a lot less fun than the 4440. It is good cheap horsepower. It has a new 50 series engine about 2000 hours old. It's a good old workhorse but very labor intensive for the 100 hours it gets a year. A couple of years ago I got rid of a second 4440 and got a 7800 that now has 7400 hours on it. It got 200 hours last year doing hay and planting. It has been dependable and only has had one hydraulic pump issue. It came with the issue and was likely the reason it was at the auction. That cost $7000 but that was mostly because of the dealership's days long hunting expedition. I really like that tractor but I am scared of the electronics.

That's what I have for main use tractors. There are other little ones but they do things like run the auger.

I can't see any newer tractor being needed soon. I like the old mechanical 466's. They are dependable and easy to work on. I'm not breaking the bank even if they need expensive repairs every five years or so.

 

[WGM]

Let me modify the question. A BTO is how many acres?

 

[rankrank1]

(quoted from post at 03:40:40 03/23/15) Let me modify the question. A BTO is how many acres?

Acres is not necessarily the defining factor although it indirectly is. Many guys are BTO's on limited acreage but they are usually into specialty crops. Traditional row croppers will likely have large acreage and livestock to be BTO's.

Relly, It is all about cash flow generated or more importantly profit generated from your farming enterprise. How long can you finance a new $100k tractor for (5 years, 7 years, 8 years).

To make the math easy lets say 5 years. Well your enterprise would have to make $20k profit plus whatever you need to need to live on just to pay for the tractor (assuming you do not work a 2nd full time job) and that assumes you got a zero percent interest loan which is unlikely.

As you add more expensive equipment like say a brand new $400k combine then both the cashflow and the profit better go up or else you will eventually be one of those guys the bank sells out.

 

[W_B]

(quoted from post at 16:38:13 03/22/15) People say the same thing about cars and trucks. But look at how much more reliable they are than the 60's or 70's. Back then, 100,000 miles was the life expectancy and ten years was the outside limit for the bodies in northern climates. Now, vehicles that are 10 years old with 100,000 miles are sought after used rides.

No questions cars and trucks are better than they were. My '10 Subaru Forester (yes, for the haters, it's made in Japan) has just over 140,000 and I've done NOTHING to it except change the oil and filters regularly and replace brake pads once. Still even driving on the original Yokahama Geolanders. It seems like it's just getting broke in. Back in the day I never had a car that was worth a hoot at 100,000 or more miles, some at less than that. Similar experience as the Subie with a couple of Toyotas and a Honda. They are getting better and better as time goes by.

As for tractors I don't disagree. Us guys that just have small acreage the older machines are fun to use and easy to fix, mostly, since we are not spending many hours day and night on them (did that growing up, don't want to go back) we probably don't need all the comfort and convenience items of the newer ones. The guys around us that farm full time use bigger and newer, the BTOs have all the latest and biggest stuff. I have a couple of Ford Ns, a '41 9N and a '48 8N. I also just got a Mahindra SCUT with a loader, 5 yr. warranty and won't have to constantly work on it like I do the Ns. Each has their purpose for us. I don't need a modern tractor to sit outside and drag my manure spreader around the fields a couple of times a week or mow some heavy weeds, yet to put a loader on one of the Ns is asking for heartache.

 

[2 Old 2 care]

I've got quite a collection of older family tractors too. Some date back to before WWII. 3 of my dads tractors, 2 that belonged to an uncle who farmed with dad, and a few others. I use them on the farm for moving wagons, occasionally running an auger, doing some light mowing, and in general just playing around with them. But when it comes to heavy work, those tractors sit in the shed and newer stuff carries the heavy load.

I'll always have a few older pieces around, but they aren't put in a position where I have to depend on them day in and day out.

 

[bison]

I ranch on 1800 acres, i work with old(er) machinery.
I rather buy an extra tractor for cheap and fix it up if need be than buy new.
I have a different tractor hooked up to every piece of machinery i need to use with the task at hand
That puts less hours on each tractor every year and if one happens to break down that i can't fix in a hurry i can grab another one hook it up and be back in business within the hour..
I own six 80-105 hp diesel tractors and all of them combined are less than half the price of 1 new one.
All these tractors but one has less than 7000 hrs on them.

Same with vehicles.
I have 5 different pickup trucks from 89 to 07, all of them diesels, all in running order. I'm never been stuck yet without wheels when one of them has an issue.
Total money layout on the lot just over twenty grand.
And I don't owe a buck on either truck or tractor

 

[Chase_99]

double post

 

[Chase_99]

Just about every farmer I know with a new tractor (color don't matter) from say the last 4-5 years has had issues. Some small glitches, some major but all needed the dealer to hook up to software on the tractor and problem solve. Once they're off warranty and the dealer has to come out to the farm with travel its 4-500 bill. Then half the time they are on the phone with the factory. Now with newer and more complicated emission additions on engines it makes it even worse. Talk to you're dealer on how the new JD yard tractors (100-150hp) work in colder climates with all the emission issues. Know a guy at a JD dealer he says its a real problem But with that all said new tractors are sure ... nice!! ITs just a cost of ownership that has to be factored in I guess and farmers are excepting it. CIH dealer told me these machines are more complicated and farmers have to be more patient!!! Dealers have to have send their techs to school constantly to keep up with all the changing features.

Guy at the parts store told me he had a farmer looking for an aftermarket dash for his JD6410 as the dealer wanted $5000 for it!! That sounds high to me though. Nothing more frustrating
then being down in busy time of year do to some crappy computer board or sensor shutting the whole machine down. Then finding out its back ordered and takes 2 weeks to come in. Farming is weather dependent and farmers can't afford to miss windows to harvest, plant, make hay!!

Your JD6400 is in what I call the "sweet spot" of ag equipment. New enough to have all the convenient features and comfort but old enough not to be totally computer controlled and at the mercy of the JD dealer to fix issues. Equipment from say the early 90's to the early 00's seems to be quite popular and brings a premium used. I'm with you I have no interest in running the real vintage simple stuff with poor cabs or no cabs, poor hydraulics, poor gear selections etc. At least for what I used tractors for. I do have a couple old CASE tractors from the 70's, they are simple but still have decent enough cabs with A/C and decent enough trans. gearing.

I read an article saying that the farmer may own his JD tractor but the factory owns the software! AG equipment has not gone the route of auto's I'm told where there is a industry standard hook up for scanners and some generic emission/driveability related fault codes.

Know a farmer who has a couple nice newer JD tractors but is looking for a 3rd now ... a JD 4440 for his next one. He says just something simple and dependable my mechanic can fix on farm if needed!

 

[Chase_99]

(quoted from post at 10:55:02 03/23/15) I ranch on 1800 acres, i work with old(er) machinery.
I rather buy an extra tractor for cheap and fix it up if need be than buy new.
I have a different tractor hooked up to every piece of machinery i need to use with the task at hand
That puts less hours on each tractor every year and if one happens to break down that i can't fix in a hurry i can grab another one hook it up and be back in business within the hour..
I own six 80-105 hp diesel tractors and all of them combined are less than half the price of 1 new one.
All these tractors but one has less than 7000 hrs on them.

Same with vehicles.
I have 5 different pickup trucks from 89 to 07, all of them diesels, all in running order. I'm never been stuck yet without wheels when one of them has an issue.
Total money layout on the lot just over twenty grand.
And I don't owe a buck on either truck or tractor

Yes I would agree if a tractor is just for general work why does it need the latestest and greatest hydraulics, auto steering, and god knows what else they put in them new Fendts and such.

IF yourself or say with bigger farms that may have a mechanic on staff who can do the repairs on farm it's hard to beat for productivity and cost wise. One bigger farm was telling me he has a "guy" but all this new suff a lot of the time you need the software from the dealer to do anything!

Maybe I'm old school but it would drive me nuts if I had to depend on the dealer (wait my turn) for them to come out. As in the busy season everyone is breaking down!

 

[mkirsch]

For some people, things like power steering, live PTO, live hydraulics, or more than 5 gears is as unreliable and difficult to work on as any "plastic" or "electronic" modern tractor.