Shop Wiring

[RJKeith]

National Electric Code does not allow Romex or type NM cable in conduit, so that needs to be done with staples. One thing you can do is run the Romex high, mount a box at the ceiling, then run metal conduit or EMT down to the receptacle. Either strip off the sheath or just use plain wire in the conduit. Unless the shop is really large (over 75 or 100 ft), then #12 should be fine for everything.

 

[wp6529]

@Danny Prosser - Romex (tm) is NOT permitted to be run in conduit its whole length. Only in "sleeves" for short distances for some protection.

That is why you remove the outer jacket of the Romex (NM) when you enter the conduit, at which point it is individual conductors and no longer Romex and there is no limitation on distance. Conduit 24" or less can be considered a sleeve and is exempt from the limitation, but for protection in a shop installation your conduit drops would typically be a good 4' or more long to get down to your receptacle boxes.

 

[Watthour]

There ARE a few exceptions to that in NFPA70.

 

[Danny Prosser]

#1 Not going to be sell the property it's going to be left to my grand kids. #2 I already have a lot of 10 and 12 wire so I'm not going to buy more just because I can I know those will work. #3 Not LED's 4 tube 4 foot fluorecent fixtures. #4 everything I've done so far to get the power to the shop and the panel box is up to code. I just wanted to know what would you do as far as the protection or not.

I believe the THHN wire is the preferred wire for conduit. But if you already have Romex, I would use 3/4" or 1" for the 10g wire with plenty of lube. Hopefully, you can break it down into shorter runs. Romex is not as slick as THHN.

There ARE a few exceptions to that in NFPA70.

You,re right. You can't in under ground or damp conditions but other wise you can run it in conduit. At least that's my understanding. And I've got hundreds of feet of the 12 and 10. I'll probably wind up using the 12 for everything and run it in EMT. Thanks.

 

[Russ from MN]

15 amp on the light circuit! unless there is an expected load on it. Jim

Exactly, with modern LED lighting you can put a lot of lights on a 15 amp breaker with #14 wire, which is much cheaper and easier to work with.

 

[Scott 730]

I'll probably wind up using the 12 for everything and run it in EMT. Thanks.

You must have missed several posts stating this is against code and also a safety hazard.

 

[Danny Prosser]

You must have missed several posts stating this is against code and also a safety hazard.

No I didn't. And like I said it states you can't use romex in conduit for underground or damp conditions. It has to be single straqnd in those conditions. Well I'm not going underground and unless I get a large hole in my shop that doesn't have plumbing there's no wet condition.

 

[kencombs]

Some times you just need to use what you have, I understand. But, to make the 10 gage more workable, I'd recommend running it on the top of the walls, but at each drop place a box and do the drop with 12. Lots easier to connect the receptacles to that. Just be sure to use only 20A breakers. I'm also a fan of metal conduit. There is no prohibition to using Romex in conduit in the code. At least I've never been able to find it, and I've looked a lot, as have a lot of other people. If anyone has a code citation, I'd appreciate knowing it. However, there is a prohibition against stripping the outer cover. That is because the individual conductors are not marked with any info and that marking is a requirement. Also, they don't have the slick coating that THHN has that makes pulling easier and less likely to damage the insulation.

Ok friends I'm ready to start trying to wire the inside of my shop. II'm going to use 10/2 for recepticales and 12/2 for the lights. My question is would you run it in sch 40 pvc, metal conduit or just staple it to the walls and ceiling. The 10/2 will be run along the top of the walls and down a light pole to about 4' up from the concrete floor. Same with the light switches except with 12/2. I'm worried about maybe rats, mice or a squirrel getting up there and maybe chewing on them. Whats your thoughts on this? I don't have to get a permit or inspection but I do want it to be safe. Thanks.Som

 

[wp6529]

No I didn't. And like I said it states you can't use romex in conduit for underground or damp conditions. It has to be single straqnd in those conditions. Well I'm not going underground and unless I get a large hole in my shop that doesn't have plumbing there's no wet condition.

Essentially per code you cannot run Romex through conduit for more than 24" regardless of whether it is underground, damp, indoors, etc. If running more than 24" you must remove the outer jacket (and paper fill) of the Romex at which point it is now individual conductors and there are no limitations on running it in conduit. This is why connectors for such transitions exist as it is common to use Romex wiring overhead and then have to provide physical protection i.e. conduit when coming down the surface of a wall.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-1...Tube-EMT-Combination-Coupling-91530/202328186

ETA: While code certainly allows you to use larger wire gauges than necessary, it is generally a poor idea unless you absolutely can't afford to buy the correct wire. It is far better to save the larger gauge wire for a future project that needs it, and in any home inspection for a future sale oversized wiring where not necessary i.e. not a long run will make all your wiring suspect.

 

[1948CaseVAI]

Opening Pandora’s box, do you think you might be selling this property in your lifetime? If so you may also have to consider how far you live from a metropolitan area and if there is any zoning requirements where you live. If you are way out in a rural area and have never heard of getting a permit to build or remodel something on your property this probably will not apply to you. Here is the scenario I would warn you about. Later you want to or due to other reasons have to sell the property. The potential buyer hires an inspector to evaluate the property and structures for him. The inspector’s report calls out deviations in your wiring from those given in the electrical code. Then the buyers says this will cost me X dollars to repair I want you to lower the property’s price X to compensate this. You mentioned conduit, per code I don’t think sheathed wiring is supposed to be installed in conduit. Just one item I came up with. YMMV

That is an excellent point. In my county you would not be able to sell that property with that shop on it unless you are a licensed electrician (then you probqbly would not be asking the question).

 

[olddavid]

I've been told that mice don't like the outer sheath on modern Romex. Having said that I had a mouse gnaw through the outer sheath and the neutral copper apparently trying to enlarge a hole in the 2" board it passed through (mobile home). If the hole had been larger where he could get through or just large enough for the wire to pass through it probably wouldn't have done it. No guarantees. Even so, I would probably use the Romex with no conduit except in areas that need protection and put limited access poison out for the mice. My concern with just the stripped Romex wires in the conduit (except for a very short run) would be that the outer insulation isn't nearly as tough as THHN. Besides stripping all that Romex would be a rather difficult job.

 

[Scott 730]

Essentially per code you cannot run Romex through conduit for more than 24" regardless of whether it is underground, damp, indoors, etc. If running more than 24" you must remove the outer jacket (and paper fill) of the Romex at which point it is now individual conductors and there are no limitations on running it in conduit. .

The OP doesn't want to hear this, he has made that clear. Gonna do it my way, everyone else be damned. Really not sure why he posted in the first place, his mind was made up beforehand. See it all the time on the interweb. People don't get the answer they want then get defensive of their position.

 

[John T]

Good morning Danny, you asked this simple question:

My question is would you run it in sch 40 pvc, metal conduit or just staple it to the walls and ceiling.

But look at all the opinions (lay as well as professional) answers (some of which you maybe already knew and didn't ask) and advice as typical for electrical questions with so many fine gents all trying to help yayyyyyyyyyy for YT Mag and its followers, love this site and all the good people ...

Having practiced professionally in the field much of my life, FWIW MY answer to your question is: I RECOMMEND METAL CONDUIT with enclosed individual THHN Conductors NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Romex inside conduit would NOT be MY preference... And provided the proper wire size and number of conductors is suitable for the size of conduit CONSULT NEC

Although you DID NOT ask, here are my other thoughts:

1) Sure bigger than required wiring (if thats what you have and choose to use) reduces line voltage drop, while obviously it's a bit harder to work with and some terminations may not accept much bigger than standard wire gauges. As long as you use the proper minimum gauge conductors protected with the proper overcurrent protection devices, you're good to go even if bigger can be used if properly connected..

2) Instead of GFCI receptacles where required, I would opt for using GFCI Circuit Breakers in the Panel.

3) For standard convenience receptacles I RECOMMEND THE USE OF 20 AMP RATED CONSTRUCTION GRADE RECEPTACLES instead of cheap 15 Amp Big Box Store devices.

4) Consider allowing for expansion and possible higher power tools and appliances which may require 240 volts and/or higher amperage.

5) If the shop panel is wired and configured as a 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire Sub Panel, it requires separate insulated and isolated Neutral and Ground Busses fed with Four Conductors (L1 L2 Neutral Ground) out from the Main Panel. Of course a buildings electrical service requires proper grounding

Best wishes Danny, good luck do a good job and what suits YOU (despite our wishes and preferences lol) provided its safe !!!!!!!

John T

 

[Danny Prosser]

The OP doesn't want to hear this, he has made that clear. Gonna do it my way, everyone else be damned. Really not sure why he posted in the first place, his mind was made up beforehand. See it all the time on the interweb. People don't get the answer they want then get defensive of their positio

Good morning Danny, you asked this simple question:

My question is would you run it in sch 40 pvc, metal conduit or just staple it to the walls and ceiling.

But look at all the opinions (lay as well as professional) answers (some of which you maybe already knew and didn't ask) and advice as typical for electrical questions with so many fine gents all trying to help yayyyyyyyyyy for YT Mag and its followers, love this site and all the good people ...

Having practiced professionally in the field much of my life, FWIW MY answer to your question is: I RECOMMEND METAL CONDUIT with enclosed individual THHN Conductors NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT Romex inside conduit would be MY preference... And provided the proper wire size and number of conductors is suitable for the size of conduit CONSULT NEC

Although you DID NOT ask, here are my other thoughts:

1) Sure bigger than required wiring (if thats what you have and choose to use) reduces line voltage drop, while obviously it's a bit harder to work with and some terminations may not accept much bigger than standard wire gauges. As long as you use the proper minimum gauge conductors protected with the proper overcurrent protection devices, you're good to go even if bigger can be used if properly connected..

2) Instead of GFCI receptacles where required, I would opt for using GFCI Circuit Breakers in the Panel.

3) For standard convenience receptacles I RECOMMEND THE USE OF 20 AMP RATED CONSTRUCTION GRADE RECEPTACLES instead of cheap 15 Amp Big Box Store devices.

4) Consider allowing for expansion and possible higher power tools and appliances which may require 240 volts and/or higher amperage.

5) If the shop panel is wired and configured as a 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire Sub Panel, it requires separate insulated and isolated Neutral and Ground Busses fed with Four Conductors (L1 L2 Neutral Ground) out from the Main Panel. Of course a buildings electrical service requires proper grounding

Best wishes Danny, good luck do a good job and what suits YOU (despite our wishes and preferences lol) provided its safe !!!!!!!

John T

Thanks so much Mr. John T. p your self.

 

[John T]

Thanks so much Mr. John T. p your self.

You’re welcome
John T

 

[kevinstuff]

Ok friends I'm ready to start trying to wire the inside of my shop. I'm going to use 10/2 for recepticales and 12/2 for the lights. My question is would you run it in sch 40 pvc, metal conduit or just staple it to the walls and ceiling. The 10/2 will be run along the top of the walls and down a light pole to about 4' up from the concrete floor. Same with the light switches except with 12/2. I'm worried about maybe rats, mice or a squirrel getting up there and maybe chewing on them. Whats your thoughts on this? I don't have to get a permit or inspection but I do want it to be safe. Thanks.

Unless your runs are over feet , then 10-2 wg is a better choice , if less than 50 feet 12-2 wg is fine . instead of the added expence

Ok friends I'm ready to start trying to wire the inside of my shop. I'm going to use 10/2 for recepticales and 12/2 for the lights. My question is would you run it in sch 40 pvc, metal conduit or just staple it to the walls and ceiling. The 10/2 will be run along the top of the walls and down a light pole to about 4' up from the concrete floor. Same with the light switches except with 12/2. I'm worried about maybe rats, mice or a squirrel getting up there and maybe chewing on them. Whats your thoughts on this? I don't have to get a permit or inspection but I do want it to be safe. Thanks.

If your length of run is over 50 feet than the 10-2 wg is fine , less than 50 feet 12-2 wg is ok , have you looked into BX armored cable ? no need for conduit as its metal sheathed , requires alittle extra work , a special tool to make cutting easy , and anti shorts , fittings standard metal boxes must be grounded , as the BX can be bought with ground and more conductors