Tool Prices....

[Dusty MI]

I have a socket set of 1/2" drive Plumb, the letters on the handles are triangle shaped, that my dad bought back in the late 40's or early 50's, I'm told they are now S@K.

 

[JOCCO]

I’ve owned and used different brands of hand tools over 60 years and my absolute favorite and the best in my opinion and experience is Williams !!!! Never seen or used any better. I own some snap on Mac. Proto SK Craftsman Williams and it’s my opinion those super expensive big truck sold tools while great and good quality are NOT worth two or three times other quality brand tools.

Of course there’s no right or wrong or one size fits all answer for everyone here and different gents have different experiences and opinions but mine is for the Williams tools best I ever owned and used

To each their own opinions and experiences on this one

John T

John JH Williams was a division of snap on! Yes, they were very good. Seems they have faded out lately, don't see them much now.

 

[Brian G. NY]

They offer financing, and one can never have too many $$$ tools, LOL!

Ah,........but you can have too many high interest finance charges!

 

[Goose]

I think the bottom line to all of this is, like it or not, like they say, 'It ain't like it used to be'.

With modern communication and modern transportation, manufacturing has become so globalized that price and country of origin are no longer synonymous, or indicators of quality. As I said above, per their website, even SnapOn has manufacturing facilities in something like 29 different countries, so how can you be certain a particular SanpOn tool was actually made in the U.S.? I suspect citizens of other countries might question the quality of something made in America. And maybe rightly so.

I've visited some 16 different countries, and much as I hate to admit it, the old cliche 'Ugly American" is not really a misnomer. We Americans in general are too self centered and too likely to assume we're the only ones who have ever done anything worthwhile. Ask the typical American when and where flush toilets were invented and they'll most likely reply here in the U.S. in the late 1800s. Actually, the Romans were using flush toilets a couple thousand years ago.

Back to tools. A great set of combination wrenches I own, in both appearance and function, both SAE and metric, was made in India and marketed by HF. Before you go berzerk, I might point out that some of the finest steel on Earth comes from India. I've read of steel statuary in India that's 2,000 years old with not a speck of rust. And those wrenches have simply done what they're supposed to for years without showing any wear, so how could you make a convincing argument that they're inferior in quality to wrenches made in the U.S and costing several times as much?

Also, I have a cordless string trimmer with the brand name 'Shindaewa'. Last summer when I had to order a new battery for it, the replacement battery had the brand name 'Echo' on it. Why? Because Echo and Shindaewa tools are both manufactured in Japan by the same company and are virtually identical except for the brand. Yet I would guess there are those who would insist Echo tools are far superior in quality and function to anything with an Asian brand name.

Then, too, in the 1980s already, I noticed an identical manufacturing defect in two identical replacement fenders for the same make and model of car. One was an OEM from GM and the other an aftermarket fender made in Taiwan. Yet the assumption is that GM's OEM replacement sheet metal comes from a GM plant. I couldn't prove anything, but you had to wonder.

I could go on and on, but the thing is, price vs quality is no longer the cut and dried, black and white issue it once was. It's up to the consumer to determine the quality of a product, perceived or actual compare price, and decide if it suits their needs. .

I'll get off the podium, now.

 

[JOCCO]

I think the bottom line to all of this is, like it or not, like they say, 'It ain't like it used to be'.

With modern communication and modern transportation, manufacturing has become so globalized that price and country of origin are no longer synonymous, or indicators of quality. As I said above, per their website, even SnapOn has manufacturing facilities in something like 29 different countries, so how can you be certain a particular SanpOn tool was actually made in the U.S.? I suspect citizens of other countries might question the quality of something made in America. And maybe rightly so.

I've visited some 16 different countries, and much as I hate to admit it, the old cliche 'Ugly American" is not really a misnomer. We Americans in general are too self centered and too likely to assume we're the only ones who have ever done anything worthwhile. Ask the typical American when and where flush toilets were invented and they'll most likely reply here in the U.S. in the late 1800s. Actually, the Romans were using flush toilets a couple thousand years ago.

Back to tools. A great set of combination wrenches I own, in both appearance and function, both SAE and metric, was made in India and marketed by HF. Before you go berzerk, I might point out that some of the finest steel on Earth comes from India. I've read of steel statuary in India that's 2,000 years old with not a speck of rust. And those wrenches have simply done what they're supposed to for years without showing any wear, so how could you make a convincing argument that they're inferior in quality to wrenches made in the U.S and costing several times as much?

Also, I have a cordless string trimmer with the brand name 'Shindaewa'. Last summer when I had to order a new battery for it, the replacement battery had the brand name 'Echo' on it. Why? Because Echo and Shindaewa tools are both manufactured in Japan by the same company and are virtually identical except for the brand. Yet I would guess there are those who would insist Echo tools are far superior in quality and function to anything with an Asian brand name.

Then, too, in the 1980s already, I noticed an identical manufacturing defect in two identical replacement fenders for the same make and model of car. One was an OEM from GM and the other an aftermarket fender made in Taiwan. Yet the assumption is that GM's OEM replacement sheet metal comes from a GM plant. I couldn't prove anything, but you had to wonder.

I could go on and on, but the thing is, price vs quality is no longer the cut and dried, black and white issue it once was. It's up to the consumer to determine the quality of a product, perceived or actual compare price, and decide if it suits their needs. .

I'll get off the podium, now.

I think the bottom line to all of this is, like it or not, like they say, 'It ain't like it used to be'.

With modern communication and modern transportation, manufacturing has become so globalized that price and country of origin are no longer synonymous, or indicators of quality. As I said above, per their website, even SnapOn has manufacturing facilities in something like 29 different countries, so how can you be certain a particular SanpOn tool was actually made in the U.S.? I suspect citizens of other countries might question the quality of something made in America. And maybe rightly so.

I've visited some 16 different countries, and much as I hate to admit it, the old cliche 'Ugly American" is not really a misnomer. We Americans in general are too self centered and too likely to assume we're the only ones who have ever done anything worthwhile. Ask the typical American when and where flush toilets were invented and they'll most likely reply here in the U.S. in the late 1800s. Actually, the Romans were using flush toilets a couple thousand years ago.

Back to tools. A great set of combination wrenches I own, in both appearance and function, both SAE and metric, was made in India and marketed by HF. Before you go berzerk, I might point out that some of the finest steel on Earth comes from India. I've read of steel statuary in India that's 2,000 years old with not a speck of rust. And those wrenches have simply done what they're supposed to for years without showing any wear, so how could you make a convincing argument that they're inferior in quality to wrenches made in the U.S and costing several times as much?

Also, I have a cordless string trimmer with the brand name 'Shindaewa'. Last summer when I had to order a new battery for it, the replacement battery had the brand name 'Echo' on it. Why? Because Echo and Shindaewa tools are both manufactured in Japan by the same company and are virtually identical except for the brand. Yet I would guess there are those who would insist Echo tools are far superior in quality and function to anything with an Asian brand name.

Then, too, in the 1980s already, I noticed an identical manufacturing defect in two identical replacement fenders for the same make and model of car. One was an OEM from GM and the other an aftermarket fender made in Taiwan. Yet the assumption is that GM's OEM replacement sheet metal comes from a GM plant. I couldn't prove anything, but you had to wonder.

I could go on and on, but the thing is, price vs quality is no longer the cut and dried, black and white issue it once was. It's up to the consumer to determine the quality of a product, perceived or actual compare price, and decide if it suits their needs. .

I'll get off the podium, now.

Goose, one thing some don't get is the ergonomics. I have a snap on ratchet that makes a craftsman feel like using a cold chisel. Next is technical design, I have some Cornwell and snap on wrenches (open end) that will hold up and take off nuts a craftsman could only dream of. (I have lots of craftsman stuff)! last is tensile strength and hardness like pullers I have seen many cheap ones bend or break. I guess it depends on how much you use it and what for. DISCLAIMER I too have harbor freight type for stuff you only do once then the tool sets on the shelf for 5 years. Now some specialty items are only available from certain venders so there is limited choice.

 

[chris142]

I think the bottom line to all of this is, like it or not, like they say, 'It ain't like it used to be'.

With modern communication and modern transportation, manufacturing has become so globalized that price and country of origin are no longer synonymous, or indicators of quality. As I said above, per their website, even SnapOn has manufacturing facilities in something like 29 different countries, so how can you be certain a particular SanpOn tool was actually made in the U.S.? I suspect citizens of other countries might question the quality of something made in America. And maybe rightly so.

I've visited some 16 different countries, and much as I hate to admit it, the old cliche 'Ugly American" is not really a misnomer. We Americans in general are too self centered and too likely to assume we're the only ones who have ever done anything worthwhile. Ask the typical American when and where flush toilets were invented and they'll most likely reply here in the U.S. in the late 1800s. Actually, the Romans were using flush toilets a couple thousand years ago.

Back to tools. A great set of combination wrenches I own, in both appearance and function, both SAE and metric, was made in India and marketed by HF. Before you go berzerk, I might point out that some of the finest steel on Earth comes from India. I've read of steel statuary in India that's 2,000 years old with not a speck of rust. And those wrenches have simply done what they're supposed to for years without showing any wear, so how could you make a convincing argument that they're inferior in quality to wrenches made in the U.S and costing several times as much?

Also, I have a cordless string trimmer with the brand name 'Shindaewa'. Last summer when I had to order a new battery for it, the replacement battery had the brand name 'Echo' on it. Why? Because Echo and Shindaewa tools are both manufactured in Japan by the same company and are virtually identical except for the brand. Yet I would guess there are those who would insist Echo tools are far superior in quality and function to anything with an Asian brand name.

Then, too, in the 1980s already, I noticed an identical manufacturing defect in two identical replacement fenders for the same make and model of car. One was an OEM from GM and the other an aftermarket fender made in Taiwan. Yet the assumption is that GM's OEM replacement sheet metal comes from a GM plant. I couldn't prove anything, but you had to wonder.

I could go on and on, but the thing is, price vs quality is no longer the cut and dried, black and white issue it once was. It's up to the consumer to determine the quality of a product, perceived or actual compare price, and decide if it suits their needs. .

I'll get off the podium, now.

Every tool I have from India seems to be made from cheeze. IMO Taiwan makes some very good tools now. Especially impact sockets. You can buy every impact socket set a store has for less than one snap on set costs and theTaiwan ones will likely last a lifetime.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I’ve owned and used different brands of hand tools over 60 years and my absolute favorite and the best in my opinion and experience is Williams !!!! Never seen or used any better. I own some snap on Mac. Proto SK Craftsman Williams and it’s my opinion those super expensive big truck sold tools while great and good quality are NOT worth two or three times other quality brand tools.

Of course there’s no right or wrong or one size fits all answer for everyone here and different gents have different experiences and opinions but mine is for the Williams tools best I ever owned and used

To each their own opinions and experiences on this one

John T

Hj John
We have talked about our mutual appreciation of these Williams Super wrenches before.
You wouldn't have any duplicates you could spare would you?
I lost my 9/16 #1163
Here's a photo of one of its sisters - a 5/8 #1164
I have the duplicates in the last photo I could trade for one. Maybe you or someone else here has a spare 9/16?

 

[Ultradog MN]

John JH Williams was a division of snap on! Yes, they were very good. Seems they have faded out lately, don't see them much now.

JOCCO,
No.
Williams was an independent company and my guess is they predate Snap - On by quite a few years.
They made a lot of different tools. Lot of specialty tools. Here is a no name - shop built? tool holder for a vintage lantern style lathe tool post. Williams made a lot of these with their name on them. Also, a lathe wrench built by Williams. It tightens, loosens, adjusts and tweeks half a dozen different places on my old lathe.
Like all the other great old USA brands, Williams couldn't keep it going and were eventually swallowed up by Snap On.

 

[Hobo,NC]

The other day while I was sitting in the customer waiting area of our local Farmer's Coop service station while a set of tires were being mounted on my pickup, I checked out the available reading material. A Mac tools catalog was included, so I leafed through it. I couldn't believe the prices.

A set of 8 slip-joint pliers, commonly referred to as 'water pump' pliers was priced at $649.00 for the set. That's an average of $81.00 per pliers. Do people actually go for deals like that? Although there was a significant difference in size between the largest and smallest, the individual pliers were close enough in size to the next one I'm not sure why one would need eight of them.

I hocked my sole to mac and snap on 50 years ago. I got to use them most of that time and can double my money back. I would have never thought it but its true. I do agree today those brands are way out of align. I have never seen other brands be as good. I have worn out set after set of SK with no warranty. I make my living with my tools I don't have time to play warranty games. You pay for the service.

 

[bc]

When I'm bored I'll watch a bunch of the How It's Made shows. I remember seeing one on ratchets and one on wrenches. One of them showed them putting a snap on stamp on the handle during the process. The factory wasn't in the US and they were making other brands at the same time. They spend more time polishing and finishing the Snap On's so they are shinier as I recall. Some of the ratchets had the same heads and gears but different shaped handles.

 

[drsportster]

The other day while I was sitting in the customer waiting area of our local Farmer's Coop service station while a set of tires were being mounted on my pickup, I checked out the available reading material. A Mac tools catalog was included, so I leafed through it. I couldn't believe the prices.

A set of 8 slip-joint pliers, commonly referred to as 'water pump' pliers was priced at $649.00 for the set. That's an average of $81.00 per pliers. Do people actually go for deals like that? Although there was a significant difference in size between the largest and smallest, the individual pliers were close enough in size to the next one I'm not sure why one would need eight of them.

Two pairs of pliers from Snap=On cost me over a hundred I shop garage sales too.

 

[NDIHC]

This Snap On 24" half drive flex head ratchet runs about $270. It was worth every penny I paid for it. On the other hand these 6" Napa clamps cost about $15 for the pair. I overpaid a crap ton for them.

 

[DoubleO7]

country of origin are no longer synonymous, or indicators of quality.

That is 100% correct.
What is lacking is the company selling the product is quality standards and demand of adherence to design and materials.
The non USA made stuff, no matter what it is gets a bad rap because the importer/seller allows or has specified junk to be made.

 

[wp6529]

Also, I have a cordless string trimmer with the brand name 'Shindaewa'. Last summer when I had to order a new battery for it, the replacement battery had the brand name 'Echo' on it. Why? Because Echo and Shindaewa tools are both manufactured in Japan by the same company and are virtually identical except for the brand. Yet I would guess there are those who would insist Echo tools are far superior in quality and function to anything with an Asian brand name.

To be clear, Shindaiwa was always a top of the line pro brand. You never heard of it because they never marketed to consumers. Some years back when the economy was a mess Shindaiwa and Echo merged which is why you will see the crossover between them now.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Every person that buys a house with a mortgage does exactly that! They pay nearly $300,000 for a $100,000 house.

You're going to shell out almost half of that $300,000 in property taxes and insurance over 30 years whether you take out a loan or not.

That's how lenders get you. They only tell you the payment on the principal and interest, and it sounds reasonable. After you sign the papers the payment nearly doubles when they tack on taxes and insurance.

For example, my principal/interest payment is only $750 a month, but I pay $1300 and change to the bank every month to cover taxes and insurance.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

You can poo-poo on Harbor Freight tools all you want. It's fun after all.

All I have to say is I've subjected Harbor Freight wrenches of all types to the worst no-no treatments known to man. 6' cheater pipe on a 1/2" breaker bar, just for starters. I have yet to break a single tool.

We all know that professionals NEVER abuse their tools, right? The safety man would be on their case, writing up OSHA violations, so they need to use their tools properly.

So, if Harbor Freight tools can hold up to my abusive amateur barnyard mechanic shenanigans, they can hold up to proper everyday use from trained professionals. I'm talking the cheap Pittsburgh tools here, not even the Icon or Quinn stuff, which is supposed to be much better.

 

[GChief]

While it is often about cheap tools breaking that is not always the case. Sometimes it is about the quality of the finishes. The reason I was contractually required to use Snap-On when wrenching on marine gas turbines was do to finishes cracking or rubbing off on fasteners and causing corrosion issues. None of the cheap stuff passed the testing, to include name brands like Craftsman, Proto, Stanley etc.

 

[Goose]

You can poo-poo on Harbor Freight tools all you want. It's fun after all.

All I have to say is I've subjected Harbor Freight wrenches of all types to the worst no-no treatments known to man. 6' cheater pipe on a 1/2" breaker bar, just for starters. I have yet to break a single tool.

We all know that professionals NEVER abuse their tools, right? The safety man would be on their case, writing up OSHA violations, so they need to use their tools properly.

So, if Harbor Freight tools can hold up to my abusive amateur barnyard mechanic shenanigans, they can hold up to proper everyday use from trained professionals. I'm talking the cheap Pittsburgh tools here, not even the Icon or Quinn stuff, which is supposed to be much better.

Yeah. Whenever someone complains about tools breaking, I've always thought it said more about the user than the tool.

 

[bc]

Harbor Fright has been good for me. I have 2 vehicles, garage, barn, basement, tractor, etc. where I have separate sets of tools to work on stuff and make it handy. Pittsburgh wrenches do fine and those heavy black phosphorus coated deep impact socket sets aren't going to break for anybody. Using an adapter for the worx impact driver, I can attach those 1/2" 6 point deep sockets and I don't have to fight them old bolts anymore. Anymore you have to have an SAE and metric set of wrenches and sockets to be ready for anything. Used up things like grinding discs are cheap in a pack. I have some of their drill bit sets and those aren't very good. Best drill bit set I've found is the Ridgid cobalt ones that will drill through anything and stay sharp although they are pricey but worth it more than any of the big box store ones like dewalt, Old Mil, etc. Back in the day I didn't like Old Mil beer either but it was the cheapest so we drank it for $1.99 a case. A couple years ago Ace hardware put their basic craftsman socket sets in sae and metric on sale for 10 bux each so I bot a bunch of each to spread around as most sets end up missing the socket I happen to be looking for at the time. OK, you can call me a cheapskate. Anyone who choked down Old Mil and Schlitz cause it was cheap is definitely a cheapskate. But when we were shooting beers we never noticed the taste anyway cause they went down so fast. Never did ever win a beer shooting contest and the cheap beer headache the next day while going to high school wasn't fun.

 

[GChief]

Yeah. Whenever someone complains about tools breaking, I've always thought it said more about the user than the tool.

But there are things I have had to do with my 1/4" Snap On rachets due to space limitations working on ships that I know from experience would destroy "lesser" rachets. Quality has its place... I own plenty of cheap tools.