Tool Prices....

[steve in ok]

John T, Williams tools are the ones I look for at garage sales. They are my favorite. I have a lot of snap on and Mac because those were the trucks that came by when I worked for a case dealer in the late seventies and early eighties. I started with a small set of SK tools.

 

[Janicholson]

John T, Williams tools are the ones I look for at garage sales. They are my favorite. I have a lot of snap on and Mac because those were the trucks that came by when I worked for a case dealer in the late seventies and early eighties. I started with a small set of SK tools.

Williams is now owned by Snap-on. They claim to maintain the integrity of the tools. I own a bunch and love them. Jim

 

[Ericp351]

Every Person?? Hate to see your Amort Tables book! From a crocked tool truck??

Every person that buys a house with a mortgage does exactly that! They pay nearly $300,000 for a $100,000 house

 

[Ericp351]

I think the bottom line to all of this is, like it or not, like they say, 'It ain't like it used to be'.

With modern communication and modern transportation, manufacturing has become so globalized that price and country of origin are no longer synonymous, or indicators of quality. As I said above, per their website, even SnapOn has manufacturing facilities in something like 29 different countries, so how can you be certain a particular SanpOn tool was actually made in the U.S.? I suspect citizens of other countries might question the quality of something made in America. And maybe rightly so.

I've visited some 16 different countries, and much as I hate to admit it, the old cliche 'Ugly American" is not really a misnomer. We Americans in general are too self centered and too likely to assume we're the only ones who have ever done anything worthwhile. Ask the typical American when and where flush toilets were invented and they'll most likely reply here in the U.S. in the late 1800s. Actually, the Romans were using flush toilets a couple thousand years ago.

Back to tools. A great set of combination wrenches I own, in both appearance and function, both SAE and metric, was made in India and marketed by HF. Before you go berzerk, I might point out that some of the finest steel on Earth comes from India. I've read of steel statuary in India that's 2,000 years old with not a speck of rust. And those wrenches have simply done what they're supposed to for years without showing any wear, so how could you make a convincing argument that they're inferior in quality to wrenches made in the U.S and costing several times as much?

Also, I have a cordless string trimmer with the brand name 'Shindaewa'. Last summer when I had to order a new battery for it, the replacement battery had the brand name 'Echo' on it. Why? Because Echo and Shindaewa tools are both manufactured in Japan by the same company and are virtually identical except for the brand. Yet I would guess there are those who would insist Echo tools are far superior in quality and function to anything with an Asian brand name.

Then, too, in the 1980s already, I noticed an identical manufacturing defect in two identical replacement fenders for the same make and model of car. One was an OEM from GM and the other an aftermarket fender made in Taiwan. Yet the assumption is that GM's OEM replacement sheet metal comes from a GM plant. I couldn't prove anything, but you had to wonder.

I could go on and on, but the thing is, price vs quality is no longer the cut and dried, black and white issue it once was. It's up to the consumer to determine the quality of a product, perceived or actual compare price, and decide if it suits their needs. .

I'll get off the podium, now.

I trust 1 of you only 18 visited countries was not India! In truth I haven't been there in a few years. Bombay smelled-filthy! Indian ships in port listing badly. Poorest hygiene. Even the thick "Bombay" plaque had missing screws!- Best part- duty free Bombay Gin.

 

[jimg.allentown]

Every Person?? Hate to see your Amort Tables book! From a crocked tool truck??

I think you are taking me out of context.
I was answering the statement about mortgages, not tool trucks. And, in case you have never looked at an amortization table on a 30-year mortgage, maybe you should. Amortization tables are not "mine," they are from financial institutions. They are based on the "rule of 78s."
By the way, what is a "crocked" tool truck, anyways? I always thought that meant something like drunk or high.

 

[Ericp351]

I think you are taking me out of context.
I was answering the statement about mortgages, not tool trucks. And, in case you have never looked at an amortization table on a 30-year mortgage, maybe you should. Amortization tables are not "mine," they are from financial institutions. They are based on the "rule of 78s."
By the way, what is a "crocked" tool truck, anyways? I always thought that meant something like drunk or high.

You did not at all specify 30 year term(s). I thought Amort tables simply belong to the man who owns same. Also , you failed to specify the Rate. Fun fact- different loans are signed at different rates, and times/terms. Was not this "thread" about Tools? You made the blanket- statement, not I.

 

[Ericp351]

You did not at all specify 30 year term(s). I thought Amort tables simply belong to the man who owns same. Also , you failed to specify the Rate. Fun fact- different loans are signed at different rates, and times/terms. Was not this "thread" about Tools? You made the blanket- statement, not I.

Post script- "rule of 78"?. Ain't it now Rule of 72? Think they changed law back in the "don't ask-don't tell" days.

 

[Bill in Colo]

I have a socket set of 1/2" drive Plumb, the letters on the handles are triangle shaped, that my dad bought back in the late 40's or early 50's, I'm told they are now S@K.

Dusty, my Dad had Plumb tools, he bought them in the 1930's I have all that were left of his when he passed in 1985. Plumb was the predecessor of Proto, I have been collecting them for 40 years.

 

[chris142]

Dusty, my Dad had Plumb tools, he bought them in the 1930's I have all that were left of his when he passed in 1985. Plumb was the predecessor of Proto, I have been collecting them for 40 years.

They at one time were using model T axles for the steel.

 

[SkipperII]

While it is often about cheap tools breaking that is not always the case. Sometimes it is about the quality of the finishes. The reason I was contractually required to use Snap-On when wrenching on marine gas turbines was do to finishes cracking or rubbing off on fasteners and causing corrosion issues. None of the cheap stuff passed the testing, to include name brands like Craftsman, Proto, Stanley etc.

It even happens to Snap On, I have had the chrome peel on some of their end wrenches, and it will slice you like a razor blade. My Snap On 1/4" flex head gave out at about 6 months, and my old Proto has been going for over twenty years, so there are no absolutes.

 

[GChief]

It even happens to Snap On, I have had the chrome peel on some of their end wrenches, and it will slice you like a razor blade. My Snap On 1/4" flex head gave out at about 6 months, and my old Proto has been going for over twenty years, so there are no absolutes.

The Navy did a long study on this and Snap On came out on top. That is way they require any company winning a Gas Turbine Maintenace contract to use Snap On. Have to take the professionally done study over anecdotal evidence

 

[Sprint 6]

For anyone who thinks chrome peeling on Snap On tools is merely anecdotal, this is a ratchet of mine that is about 5 years old.

 

[caterpillar guy]

If looking at prices Williams is now just as costly as the rest just like all the best brands are. One of the reasons I bought most of mine out of pawn shops years ago I needed the better tools and no tool truck was out in the middle of any wheat field I was in so got what I could find in places that had been sombody elses misfortune. I like my Proto sockets and I like 6 point sockets best if I can get them and use them. Most of mine are 6 point from all brands including craftsman just had to look for them in the catalog. I also would price out the sets in pieces versus the set price usually the craftsman was cheaper to buy piecemeal. I've found cheap screw drivers to last about as long as good ones brand wise none of them stand up to abuse and misuse very well.

 

[GChief]

For anyone who thinks chrome peeling on Snap On tools is merely anecdotal, this is a ratchet of mine that is about 5 years old.

This is the definition of anecdotal.

I did not say they did not peel. I said that they came out on top compared to all professional and consumer tools tested in a lab. All this lab does is test materials that the Navy is going to use in and on equipment. I will take their study as pretty accurate.

Spin it however you what, Snap On came out on top and that is why certain contracts require the use of Snap On tools.

Edit: they did not test Armstong for some reason. That kind of sucked for me as I have more Armstong than I do Snap On. But at the end of the day, we bought 3 complete kits in Pelican cases to be checked out when working on marine gas turbines.

 

[Dusty MI]

I have a RotoHead ratchet that I like.

 

[Larry EC-OH]

Post script- "rule of 78"?. Ain't it now Rule of 72? Think they changed law back in the "don't ask-don't tell" days.

I learned the rule of 72 as well. I thought with inflation and all it just might be the rule of 78 in this crazy day and age.

 

[Sprint 6]

This is the definition of anecdotal.

I did not say they did not peel. I said that they came out on top compared to all professional and consumer tools tested in a lab. All this lab does is test materials that the Navy is going to use in and on equipment. I will take their study as pretty accurate.

Spin it however you what, Snap On came out on top and that is why certain contracts require the use of Snap On tools.

Edit: they did not test Armstong for some reason. That kind of sucked for me as I have more Armstong than I do Snap On. But at the end of the day, we bought 3 complete kits in Pelican cases to be checked out when working on marine gas turbines.

Most likely, Snap On was required because Snap On provided a generous kick back to the bureaucrats making the requirements. That's how government works, kick backs and graft.

 

[GChief]

Most likely, Snap On was required because Snap On provided a generous kick back to the bureaucrats making the requirements. That's how government works, kick backs and graft.

Not at all, I know the people doing the test and this was 100% ground level engineers trying to figure out why they were getting corrosion on fasteners.

I doubt that any of the manufacturers were aware of this testing.

But I do understand the cynicism.

 

[Brownie450]

Vlchek wrenches are good quality if you can find them.
Can't recall where they were made, but I'm sure they
aren't made any more.
Jim

 

[jwal10]

You did not at all specify 30 year term(s). I thought Amort tables simply belong to the man who owns same. Also , you failed to specify the Rate. Fun fact- different loans are signed at different rates, and times/terms. Was not this "thread" about Tools? You made the blanket- statement, not I.

My main box is a Craftsman set given to me by a former boss when I was 16. I bought a lot of small S-K sets in metal boxes. I also have a couple of brand sets of open/box wrenches because I wanted bigger sizes (up to 1 1/4") cheap at the same parts store as the S-K sets. Never broke one but I am 5'3" and never was more than 140, 126 now. I have taken a few things back to Sears and I bought a couple extra sets of the fine tooth ratchets in case one went bad. I kept a new set and gave my son the other AND my originals a few years ago....James

Sorry, I did't know I quoted this.